The deadliest road in America
July 29, 2022 8:53 AM Subscribe
Being a pedestrian in the US was already dangerous. It’s getting even worse. (SLVox)
Because life in the United States is so structured around cars — so many of us depend on them, due to sprawl and lack of good public transit, and because infrastructure in this country is built with drivers in mind — it can be easy to miss the broader crisis unfolding on our streets. Most of us, when we drive, tend to think about our experiences as specific; our roads might have horrible traffic, or our community’s drivers might be particularly reckless. But the evidence mounting over the past few years indicates that something much larger is going on: America is experiencing a pedestrian fatality crisis.
It’s not just Florida. In 2020, more than 6,700 pedestrians were killed while walking and using wheelchairs, despite a dramatic decrease in the number of cars on the road and the number of miles traveled. Data from the Governors Highway Safety Association that year projected that the pedestrian fatality rate soared 21 percent, amounting to “the largest ever annual increase in the rate at which drivers struck and killed people on foot.” That same year, nearly 39,000 people were killed in car crashes, the largest number of deaths since 2007. When the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released its preliminary findings, the NHTSA’s deputy administrator told Reuters: “We’ve never seen trends like this, and we feel an urgency ... to take action and turn this around as quickly as possible.”
Because life in the United States is so structured around cars — so many of us depend on them, due to sprawl and lack of good public transit, and because infrastructure in this country is built with drivers in mind — it can be easy to miss the broader crisis unfolding on our streets. Most of us, when we drive, tend to think about our experiences as specific; our roads might have horrible traffic, or our community’s drivers might be particularly reckless. But the evidence mounting over the past few years indicates that something much larger is going on: America is experiencing a pedestrian fatality crisis.
It’s not just Florida. In 2020, more than 6,700 pedestrians were killed while walking and using wheelchairs, despite a dramatic decrease in the number of cars on the road and the number of miles traveled. Data from the Governors Highway Safety Association that year projected that the pedestrian fatality rate soared 21 percent, amounting to “the largest ever annual increase in the rate at which drivers struck and killed people on foot.” That same year, nearly 39,000 people were killed in car crashes, the largest number of deaths since 2007. When the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released its preliminary findings, the NHTSA’s deputy administrator told Reuters: “We’ve never seen trends like this, and we feel an urgency ... to take action and turn this around as quickly as possible.”
people need to slow the hell down - where i live they're trying to redesign the roads with less lanes so people will slow the hell down and it's not working
as bad as urban design is, it can't explain why it's gotten so much worse in the last couple of years - basically, people are being selfish maniacs in oversized vehicles and for social reasons, they're a lot less likely to get pulled over for it
posted by pyramid termite at 9:12 AM on July 29, 2022 [13 favorites]
as bad as urban design is, it can't explain why it's gotten so much worse in the last couple of years - basically, people are being selfish maniacs in oversized vehicles and for social reasons, they're a lot less likely to get pulled over for it
posted by pyramid termite at 9:12 AM on July 29, 2022 [13 favorites]
Same trend for cyclists.
Fuck cars and our car-centric society. What a trashy, temporary way to enrich just a few.
posted by glaucon at 9:27 AM on July 29, 2022 [17 favorites]
Fuck cars and our car-centric society. What a trashy, temporary way to enrich just a few.
posted by glaucon at 9:27 AM on July 29, 2022 [17 favorites]
A possible short-term solution - pedestrian bridges over the stroad?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:32 AM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:32 AM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
A possible short-term solution - pedestrian bridges over the stroad?
This is an accessibility nightmare and also yet another "solution" that puts drivers first. Why not instead put bollards at every crosswalk that auto-raise when the light is red so that you physically can't kill someone with your car?
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 9:34 AM on July 29, 2022 [90 favorites]
This is an accessibility nightmare and also yet another "solution" that puts drivers first. Why not instead put bollards at every crosswalk that auto-raise when the light is red so that you physically can't kill someone with your car?
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 9:34 AM on July 29, 2022 [90 favorites]
This is an accessibility nightmare and also yet another "solution" that puts drivers first.
That's why I meant it as a "short term" solution, to protect people during the inevitable decade it would take for the state of Florida to finally get around to implementing the longer-term solutions such as the one you suggest.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:36 AM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
That's why I meant it as a "short term" solution, to protect people during the inevitable decade it would take for the state of Florida to finally get around to implementing the longer-term solutions such as the one you suggest.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:36 AM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Urbanists have been calling for safer streets that respect the rights and safety of all road users for decades, within the context of a greater movement to improve the livability, walkability, and financial solvency of our cities. Activists like Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns illustrate how car-dependent, suburban sprawl is simply not sustainable from the perspectives of economics, health, or community.
The movement reached a fever pitch in the past couple of years with the advent of the extremely well-produced Youtube channel Not Just Bikes. NJB explains the glaring flaws of American and Canadian road and city design and how it prioritizes the convenience of car drivers over the safety and well-being of everyone else.
It is no surprise that pedestrian fatalities on this road are so high. As the article points out, they are unacceptably high across the entire US. Our roads are designed to let cars go as fast as possible, even when the roads are shared among vulnerable users like pedestrians or bicyclists. It is unacceptable for a road to just stop randomly, but it seems perfectly acceptable for a bike lane or sidewalk to do the same. It is unacceptable to plant large obstacles in the middle of roads, but our already-narrow sidewalks are crammed with utility poles, signs, and benches that turn them into obstacle courses and barely allow people in wheelchairs, walkers, mobility scooters, etc to maneuver safely.
Car drivers, who can kill bicyclists with a small flick of the wrist, spend countless hours wailing about bicyclists who don't stop at stop signs while blatantly disregarding their safety while sharing the road with them, then rally against protected bike lanes. At my city council meetings, it has been almost impossible to get any kind of bike lanes approved, and I imagine that it's the same in most cities across the US.
We don't pull back speed limits on these shared roads because the convenience of car drivers takes precedent over all other road users, and to bring a speed limit down from 55 to 40 is anathema in the US. The article points out that the road speed limit is 45-55, but drivers routinely drive much faster, because it's simply accepted that everyone should drive 10 over at all times, even though pedestrian fatalities rise sharply with speed.
We have allowed oversized SUVs and pickup trucks to swarm the market, even though they're unnecessary for all but a tiny segment of the market, even though they rip up our roads more than smaller cars thanks to their weight (whose repairs we all then pay for), even though they cause a disproportionate amount of carbon emissions, and even their ridiculous size and weight make them pedestrian killing machines. SUVs and pickups are exempt from bumper match regulations, meaning that front visibility is significantly reduced, and any pedestrians whom SUV/pickup drivers hit are more likely to go under the vehicle instead of over the hood, resulting in greater injuries and higher fatalities.
Our roads need to serve all users better, not just the needs of car drivers. It will take a long time, but we need to advocate for better transit, better bicycle infrastructure, better sidewalks, smaller parking lots, smaller cars, better traffic calming, lower speed limits, to pull back these unacceptably high fatality statistics. I am tired of cars killing people on the road.
posted by aquamvidam at 9:36 AM on July 29, 2022 [77 favorites]
The movement reached a fever pitch in the past couple of years with the advent of the extremely well-produced Youtube channel Not Just Bikes. NJB explains the glaring flaws of American and Canadian road and city design and how it prioritizes the convenience of car drivers over the safety and well-being of everyone else.
It is no surprise that pedestrian fatalities on this road are so high. As the article points out, they are unacceptably high across the entire US. Our roads are designed to let cars go as fast as possible, even when the roads are shared among vulnerable users like pedestrians or bicyclists. It is unacceptable for a road to just stop randomly, but it seems perfectly acceptable for a bike lane or sidewalk to do the same. It is unacceptable to plant large obstacles in the middle of roads, but our already-narrow sidewalks are crammed with utility poles, signs, and benches that turn them into obstacle courses and barely allow people in wheelchairs, walkers, mobility scooters, etc to maneuver safely.
Car drivers, who can kill bicyclists with a small flick of the wrist, spend countless hours wailing about bicyclists who don't stop at stop signs while blatantly disregarding their safety while sharing the road with them, then rally against protected bike lanes. At my city council meetings, it has been almost impossible to get any kind of bike lanes approved, and I imagine that it's the same in most cities across the US.
We don't pull back speed limits on these shared roads because the convenience of car drivers takes precedent over all other road users, and to bring a speed limit down from 55 to 40 is anathema in the US. The article points out that the road speed limit is 45-55, but drivers routinely drive much faster, because it's simply accepted that everyone should drive 10 over at all times, even though pedestrian fatalities rise sharply with speed.
We have allowed oversized SUVs and pickup trucks to swarm the market, even though they're unnecessary for all but a tiny segment of the market, even though they rip up our roads more than smaller cars thanks to their weight (whose repairs we all then pay for), even though they cause a disproportionate amount of carbon emissions, and even their ridiculous size and weight make them pedestrian killing machines. SUVs and pickups are exempt from bumper match regulations, meaning that front visibility is significantly reduced, and any pedestrians whom SUV/pickup drivers hit are more likely to go under the vehicle instead of over the hood, resulting in greater injuries and higher fatalities.
Our roads need to serve all users better, not just the needs of car drivers. It will take a long time, but we need to advocate for better transit, better bicycle infrastructure, better sidewalks, smaller parking lots, smaller cars, better traffic calming, lower speed limits, to pull back these unacceptably high fatality statistics. I am tired of cars killing people on the road.
posted by aquamvidam at 9:36 AM on July 29, 2022 [77 favorites]
Accessible ped bridges cost millions of dollars and take months at the fastest.
Quick solutions are road diets with physical barriers, reducing visibility with chicanes so drivers slow down, raising pedestrian crossings, tightening corner radii with barriers, giving pedestrian crossing signals an advance over the green, and so on. These can be installed in a weekend.
The problem is political will to do it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:36 AM on July 29, 2022 [32 favorites]
Quick solutions are road diets with physical barriers, reducing visibility with chicanes so drivers slow down, raising pedestrian crossings, tightening corner radii with barriers, giving pedestrian crossing signals an advance over the green, and so on. These can be installed in a weekend.
The problem is political will to do it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:36 AM on July 29, 2022 [32 favorites]
My friend and colleague was hit on one of these stroads in Maryland and ultimately died of his injuries. Witnesses said Tom was crossing with a pedestrian signal, and other cars turning left were waiting while he crossed, when this pickup whipped around the waiting cars and ran over him. And we're lucky because the police actually found the driver, who has since pleaded guilty and been sentenced to 4 years in prison.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:39 AM on July 29, 2022 [35 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 9:39 AM on July 29, 2022 [35 favorites]
I'd bet a hundred dollars that a primary cause is text msgs while driving. Even talking on the phone when driving leaves the driver impaired about the same as being legally drunk.
I got into a fender bender, coasting in to a stop at a traffic signal, I was looking at my phone for a phone number and bumped into the vehicle in front of me. Barely moving, 10mph max, I needed a new front bumper, the guy I bopped into was in a small pick-up, needed the entire bed replaced; I think coke cans are about as solid as that almost new truck.
In any case, a person on a bicycle, or walking, or in a wheel-chair -- had I hit any of those I'd have killed the person.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:51 AM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
I got into a fender bender, coasting in to a stop at a traffic signal, I was looking at my phone for a phone number and bumped into the vehicle in front of me. Barely moving, 10mph max, I needed a new front bumper, the guy I bopped into was in a small pick-up, needed the entire bed replaced; I think coke cans are about as solid as that almost new truck.
In any case, a person on a bicycle, or walking, or in a wheel-chair -- had I hit any of those I'd have killed the person.
posted by dancestoblue at 9:51 AM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
I suspect texting is part of it. But also, in the pandemic, with less traffic, everyone got used to driving faster -- and faster driving meant more deaths. And now that traffic is filling back up, people aren't necessarily slowing down, so you have faster driving plus more cars -- even more deaths.
I live part time in North Vancouver, and from our place to the bus stop is 10 minutes along one of the most gorgeous trails you've ever laid eyes on and then a terrifying jaunt across a 6 lane street that is secretly actually a major highway. There are parts of it I won't cross until I make eye contact with the first driver in oncoming traffic and *still* I have been almost run over by drivers who definitely knew I was there. People are so zoned out in how they drive now.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:00 AM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
I live part time in North Vancouver, and from our place to the bus stop is 10 minutes along one of the most gorgeous trails you've ever laid eyes on and then a terrifying jaunt across a 6 lane street that is secretly actually a major highway. There are parts of it I won't cross until I make eye contact with the first driver in oncoming traffic and *still* I have been almost run over by drivers who definitely knew I was there. People are so zoned out in how they drive now.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:00 AM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
From the Vox article:
When fatal crashes happen, the questions — from law enforcement, the media, commenters on Facebook — inevitably turn to human behavior: Was the driver drunk? What was the pedestrian wearing? Was the driver texting? How fast were they going? Was the cyclist wearing a helmet? What was the pedestrian wearing? Could they be easily seen in the dark? In other words, we look for ways to blame individual behavior, rather than consider the larger systemic forces at play.posted by hydropsyche at 10:00 AM on July 29, 2022 [54 favorites]
That instinct, to attribute a fatal crash to some failure of personal responsibility, distracts us from the bigger picture: that many of our road designs are inherently unsafe.
We don't really have to brainstorm solutions in the comments - the techniques for better road design and calming traffic are well known. We also know that our obsession with car-centric infrastructure doesn't even help cars; it leads to induced demand, so more congestion and more time spent on the road.
As with most things, the problem is a lack of political will. It's not that we don't know how to make pedestrians safer and cities better - it's that we don't want to.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:03 AM on July 29, 2022 [17 favorites]
As with most things, the problem is a lack of political will. It's not that we don't know how to make pedestrians safer and cities better - it's that we don't want to.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:03 AM on July 29, 2022 [17 favorites]
Txt messages and phones for sure. But also, anybody get the feeling that modern cars handle a bit too well and that incites drivers to go faster?
I have a Santa Fe, chosen for storage size with specific requirements in mind but you can judge me it’s ok, and it just drives really well, never feel I’m going too fast even when roads are narrow. I’m not a maniac and try to drive prudently but it’s really easy to go too fast if you’re not paying attention since the handling on a modern car is good and the brakes are also really good.
Speed bumps and pot holes are the best thing to slow drivers :)
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:06 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I have a Santa Fe, chosen for storage size with specific requirements in mind but you can judge me it’s ok, and it just drives really well, never feel I’m going too fast even when roads are narrow. I’m not a maniac and try to drive prudently but it’s really easy to go too fast if you’re not paying attention since the handling on a modern car is good and the brakes are also really good.
Speed bumps and pot holes are the best thing to slow drivers :)
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:06 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'd bet a hundred dollars that a primary cause is text msgs while driving. Even talking on the phone when driving leaves the driver impaired about the same as being legally drunk.
Even there better infrastructure would be an advantage. Traffic calmed streets reduce the amount of time one can drive forward without looking for example. If every suburban street had 8 hairpins per block like Lombard street there would be a lot less texting and driving.
posted by Mitheral at 10:18 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
Even there better infrastructure would be an advantage. Traffic calmed streets reduce the amount of time one can drive forward without looking for example. If every suburban street had 8 hairpins per block like Lombard street there would be a lot less texting and driving.
posted by Mitheral at 10:18 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I can't even talk with my own father about this. He just will not be moved from blaming cyclists(-like-me) for being slow, for not wearing helmets, for Idaho-stopping -- anything rather than accept any responsibility whatever as a driver for the safety of anyone who isn't also in a car.
He's mostly a progressive dude, but on this he will not be moved... and I'm pretty sure he's not alone in that.
I don't have a magic fix. I can't even fix my dad.
posted by humbug at 10:23 AM on July 29, 2022 [17 favorites]
He's mostly a progressive dude, but on this he will not be moved... and I'm pretty sure he's not alone in that.
I don't have a magic fix. I can't even fix my dad.
posted by humbug at 10:23 AM on July 29, 2022 [17 favorites]
Drivers are entitled, that's why. I drive a Honda Fit and I get bullied on the highway by people all. the. time.
Driving in a suburban sprawl hellscape or a city suuuuuucks, too, and I think deep down people know it and drive accordingly, because they hate doing it. I'm in rural Maine this week and driving around here is quite nice, but I'm staying in a county the size of Delaware with roughly 35 times fewer people than Delaware.
Cars in rural areas make sense. They don't scale anywhere else and in trying to make them do so, have turned the places most Americans live into some of the ugliest built environments humanity has ever constructed, places that literally isolate people and turn them into selfish assholes.
posted by rhymedirective at 10:32 AM on July 29, 2022 [20 favorites]
Driving in a suburban sprawl hellscape or a city suuuuuucks, too, and I think deep down people know it and drive accordingly, because they hate doing it. I'm in rural Maine this week and driving around here is quite nice, but I'm staying in a county the size of Delaware with roughly 35 times fewer people than Delaware.
Cars in rural areas make sense. They don't scale anywhere else and in trying to make them do so, have turned the places most Americans live into some of the ugliest built environments humanity has ever constructed, places that literally isolate people and turn them into selfish assholes.
posted by rhymedirective at 10:32 AM on July 29, 2022 [20 favorites]
Also, some people are assholes to *anyone* who is in a smaller vehicle, on foot, or any other type of conveyance from a motorized mobility aid to a Harley. I had to give up my cheap on gas small four-door car after having jacked up trucks that would go up and OVER my bumper and perch on top of my car in an accident ride my tail pipe, leaving three feet or so of space between us. My husband noticed the same thing when he would drive my car to work instead of his Explorer. Whenever I drove my father-in-law's truck, people would give me plenty of room. I have a crossover/small SUV now, and feel much safer from the anti-social people who use their larger vehicles to bully others.
We have a Main Street in our small town, and they've put up markers in the middle to remind people to stop for pedestrians crossing from the shops and restaurants to the parking area across the road. It's made people slow down, even slower than the posted 30 mph through town, which is nice.
posted by tlwright at 10:44 AM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
We have a Main Street in our small town, and they've put up markers in the middle to remind people to stop for pedestrians crossing from the shops and restaurants to the parking area across the road. It's made people slow down, even slower than the posted 30 mph through town, which is nice.
posted by tlwright at 10:44 AM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
I used to live near a couple of intersections where lots of people were hit or nearly hit in the crosswalk. The main cause was almost always drivers not looking right before taking right on red. Or looking but failing to yield to pedestrians entering the crosswalk. I don’t know if banning right on red would help across the state or the nation, but it would make things a hell of a lot safer in that neighborhood.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:46 AM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:46 AM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
I live in Chicago and am almost hit by cars on a weekly basis. Back in February, I was hit by a WGN news van. In every single case, I had the right of way via the walk sign. The issue is that when cars or news vans turn, they don't bother to check for pedestrians. I get that maybe better planning can fix this issue, but I don't get why it's too much to ask drivers to be more careful when driving a car.
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 10:51 AM on July 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by chernoffhoeffding at 10:51 AM on July 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
I'd bet a hundred dollars that a primary cause is text msgs while driving.
It's urban sprawl, massive vehicles, and anti-human urban design.
You can MeMail me for details to give me the money, thanks.
posted by pompomtom at 11:03 AM on July 29, 2022 [16 favorites]
It's urban sprawl, massive vehicles, and anti-human urban design.
You can MeMail me for details to give me the money, thanks.
posted by pompomtom at 11:03 AM on July 29, 2022 [16 favorites]
That instinct, to attribute a fatal crash to some failure of personal responsibility, distracts us from the bigger picture
Also see: infectious disease, mass shootings, personal health, education, financial stability.
posted by meowzilla at 11:04 AM on July 29, 2022 [21 favorites]
Also see: infectious disease, mass shootings, personal health, education, financial stability.
posted by meowzilla at 11:04 AM on July 29, 2022 [21 favorites]
@humbug I totally understand, my Dad got me into BMX and supported me when I moved to road racing. Hell, at 73 he is going to drive with me to Kansas to be my pit crew at for the Unbound 200 next year. However, both him and my mother loathe cyclists as a nuisance, and should be on the "path". But, then complain about the "maniac" cyclists who ruin their walks on the path.......
As for the roads and drivers, I rarely ride them anymore unless it's a organized event or club ride. Even then, I'm skittish as the hostility (throwing objects, swerving and coal rolling) and cyclist deaths due to reckless, texting, or intoxicated drivers has gone off the chart around here the last 5 years. I now mostly ride gravel on the state park fire roads nearby, or drive two hours to gravel roads out in the countryside. It's not ideal or convenient, but I want to live to see my kids grow up.
posted by remo at 11:04 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
As for the roads and drivers, I rarely ride them anymore unless it's a organized event or club ride. Even then, I'm skittish as the hostility (throwing objects, swerving and coal rolling) and cyclist deaths due to reckless, texting, or intoxicated drivers has gone off the chart around here the last 5 years. I now mostly ride gravel on the state park fire roads nearby, or drive two hours to gravel roads out in the countryside. It's not ideal or convenient, but I want to live to see my kids grow up.
posted by remo at 11:04 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I have driven this road and it terrible for everyone.
I'm surprised that the author admitted to making a U-turn across 3 lanes of traffic. My family jokes about the "Florida left", which begins from the far right lane and crosses 3 lanes of cars. I have no doubt that the road is what encourages this stupid and dangerous move. If you miss the store you want - it is difficult to accept that you will have to spend another 15 minutes turning around safely. It is the same situation that pedestrians have when there is no safe place to cross.
posted by Gor-ella at 11:08 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm surprised that the author admitted to making a U-turn across 3 lanes of traffic. My family jokes about the "Florida left", which begins from the far right lane and crosses 3 lanes of cars. I have no doubt that the road is what encourages this stupid and dangerous move. If you miss the store you want - it is difficult to accept that you will have to spend another 15 minutes turning around safely. It is the same situation that pedestrians have when there is no safe place to cross.
posted by Gor-ella at 11:08 AM on July 29, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'll just chime in as a pedestrian living near the downtown core in a small Canadian city. It's wild how many times drivers will just roll through crosswalks or just go ahead and turn even if you have WALK sign, and then have the audacity to get mad at you for actually obeying the laws. (I am not fond of jaywalking--though I have done it.) I have more or less stopped cycling the short distance to my job because of how unsafe I feel no matter how cautious and law-abiding I am on my bike.
My neighbourhood does have real sidewalks and bike lanes (though these are constantly clogged by delivery trucks, DoorDash et al drivers, and taxis) but I just feel like drivers across the board have gotten more aggressive? And I have noticed that there seem to be bigger cars as a rule, not the exception.
posted by Kitteh at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
My neighbourhood does have real sidewalks and bike lanes (though these are constantly clogged by delivery trucks, DoorDash et al drivers, and taxis) but I just feel like drivers across the board have gotten more aggressive? And I have noticed that there seem to be bigger cars as a rule, not the exception.
posted by Kitteh at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Out here where everyone is 100 years old, I sort of wonder about how much "heavily medicated" plays a part in driver awareness. We have a thing where everyone drives 42.3mph everywhere: Highway, school zone, neighborhood, rural two lane. It's like they set their cruise control and check out.
posted by maxwelton at 11:23 AM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 11:23 AM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
When I lived in a suburb of New York City, I was once crossing the main road in my town after getting off the bus, with the light in my favor and a walk signal, and a guy started revving his SUV's engine and honking his horn because he wanted to make the right turn and I was in the way. I gave him the finger (in the time-honored tradition) and kept going, and then he came back after me and pulled up on the wrong side of the road two blocks later, jumped out, and got in my face about what the hell a fatso like me thought I could do to someone with a big car like him.
So this is the kind of mindset I expect from these people.
(I was lucky in that one of the town cops drove by and got into the situation, and told me to go, so I ended up without a fight or something.)
posted by mephron at 11:40 AM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
So this is the kind of mindset I expect from these people.
(I was lucky in that one of the town cops drove by and got into the situation, and told me to go, so I ended up without a fight or something.)
posted by mephron at 11:40 AM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
Pedestrian safe streets encourage community participation, help small business and empower local government. These things are counter to conservative world views.
No matter what statistics are presented, every person that can walk or take safe and reliable transport that does not involve funneling taxpayer and private income to a corporation is a non-starter.
posted by kzin602 at 11:51 AM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
I've also noticed things got worse for pedestrians after covid lockdowns. Less traffic on the roads and sidewalks encouraged drivers to be more careless and drive faster.
But the big thing I find is a combination of more very large, very tall vehicles and the penchant for car companies to build vehicles than can accelerate at a ridiculous rate. New trucks and SUVs have towering walls for front ends that bulldoze down the road. New vehicles can get very fast in a very short distance. Add distractions from cell phones, and you have a deadly mix.
While I am all for replacing internal combustion vehicles with electric ones, electric vehicles concern me with their combination of being very quiet and having crazy acceleration. The electric Ford F-150 can go from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:02 PM on July 29, 2022 [9 favorites]
But the big thing I find is a combination of more very large, very tall vehicles and the penchant for car companies to build vehicles than can accelerate at a ridiculous rate. New trucks and SUVs have towering walls for front ends that bulldoze down the road. New vehicles can get very fast in a very short distance. Add distractions from cell phones, and you have a deadly mix.
While I am all for replacing internal combustion vehicles with electric ones, electric vehicles concern me with their combination of being very quiet and having crazy acceleration. The electric Ford F-150 can go from 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:02 PM on July 29, 2022 [9 favorites]
I taught my kids that being right about who has the right of way when they are crossing certain local streets on foot is incidental. Big deal you had the right of way, I am finding the right clothes for your funeral. Always assume the driver is going to ignore you. Never stand off the curb waiting to cross. Never start to cross after the walk sign starts counting down. If you can, even when you have the lgiht and the right of way and everything else on your side, run like a scared bunny across the street.
It is very hard to argue that you had the right of way from your hospital bed or worse from the grave.
The only way to get drivers to change is to hit them in the wallet and to impose prison sentences on pedestrian hits.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:07 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
It is very hard to argue that you had the right of way from your hospital bed or worse from the grave.
The only way to get drivers to change is to hit them in the wallet and to impose prison sentences on pedestrian hits.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:07 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
And I have noticed that there seem to be bigger cars as a rule, not the exception.
This is true - my dad, who has driven Ford cars most of his life, was recently surprised to find out that Ford isn't selling ANY sedans in the USA any more. They're just selling trucks, SUVs, crossovers, and the Mustang. You can still buy a Honda Civic or Accord, or Toyota Corolla or Camry, or up until recently a Chevy Malibu, but trucks and SUVs are now over 80 percent of new car sales in the US.
posted by sigmagalator at 12:09 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
This is true - my dad, who has driven Ford cars most of his life, was recently surprised to find out that Ford isn't selling ANY sedans in the USA any more. They're just selling trucks, SUVs, crossovers, and the Mustang. You can still buy a Honda Civic or Accord, or Toyota Corolla or Camry, or up until recently a Chevy Malibu, but trucks and SUVs are now over 80 percent of new car sales in the US.
posted by sigmagalator at 12:09 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
>Drivers are entitled, that's why.
It's true that drivers in the US and Canada are entitled, but that's not the root of the problem. They're entitled because they've been given a position of privilege, power, and priority for so long that they're used unimpeded roads, priority on the roads, high speeds, cheap gas, free parking.
Perhaps the example that best encapsulates the hegemony we've bestowed upon cars is the beg button to cross the road: the button you have to press to "beg" for a few moments to cross the road. The button that only works some of the time. What if we made drivers stop to press a button to request to cross? If you balk at the idea, consider why.
That is why drivers get so aggravated at being "stuck" behind cyclists, even though it costs, like, 30 seconds at most. They're not used to being slowed down for anything.
Nearly every measure designed to improve road safety and urban design will seem like a sacrifice on the part of drivers: slower speeds, road diets, fewer travel lanes, smaller vehicles with lower hood heights, paid parking, less parking overall, roads design that demands greater vigilance on the part of drivers, pedestrian priority.
Even though these things ultimately benefit everyone (improved traffic flow, traffic safety, quality of life, air quality, etc), drivers will push back because they subvert decades of privilege.
Road design is an important factor: Vision Zero/Systematic Safety acknowledges that drivers WILL get distracted, get angry, try to speed, etc. The principles of road design under Systematic Safety try to address conflicts BEFORE they happen, rather than waiting until drivers kill pedestrians and bicyclists to do something (and by Something, I mean Nothing). Meanwhile, it almost seems that Systematic Danger is the underlying principle of American road design.
Speed limits don't prevent speeding. Good road design does.
Laws against texting don't prevent texting. Good road design does.
Stoplights don't prevent T-bone and head-on collisions. Good road design (especially roundabouts) does.
Painted bike lanes don't prevent right hook collisions. Good road design does.
Good design is almost always superior to aggressive enforcement.
posted by aquamvidam at 12:11 PM on July 29, 2022 [55 favorites]
It's true that drivers in the US and Canada are entitled, but that's not the root of the problem. They're entitled because they've been given a position of privilege, power, and priority for so long that they're used unimpeded roads, priority on the roads, high speeds, cheap gas, free parking.
Perhaps the example that best encapsulates the hegemony we've bestowed upon cars is the beg button to cross the road: the button you have to press to "beg" for a few moments to cross the road. The button that only works some of the time. What if we made drivers stop to press a button to request to cross? If you balk at the idea, consider why.
That is why drivers get so aggravated at being "stuck" behind cyclists, even though it costs, like, 30 seconds at most. They're not used to being slowed down for anything.
Nearly every measure designed to improve road safety and urban design will seem like a sacrifice on the part of drivers: slower speeds, road diets, fewer travel lanes, smaller vehicles with lower hood heights, paid parking, less parking overall, roads design that demands greater vigilance on the part of drivers, pedestrian priority.
Even though these things ultimately benefit everyone (improved traffic flow, traffic safety, quality of life, air quality, etc), drivers will push back because they subvert decades of privilege.
Road design is an important factor: Vision Zero/Systematic Safety acknowledges that drivers WILL get distracted, get angry, try to speed, etc. The principles of road design under Systematic Safety try to address conflicts BEFORE they happen, rather than waiting until drivers kill pedestrians and bicyclists to do something (and by Something, I mean Nothing). Meanwhile, it almost seems that Systematic Danger is the underlying principle of American road design.
Speed limits don't prevent speeding. Good road design does.
Laws against texting don't prevent texting. Good road design does.
Stoplights don't prevent T-bone and head-on collisions. Good road design (especially roundabouts) does.
Painted bike lanes don't prevent right hook collisions. Good road design does.
Good design is almost always superior to aggressive enforcement.
posted by aquamvidam at 12:11 PM on July 29, 2022 [55 favorites]
I went out to my woodworking shop, and cut a bunch of faux pick axes out of wood. Spray painted the heads green, the handles red. Stenciled a yellow "Yield" and pedestrian symbol on them. Put them in buckets at an intersection, ala those stupid crosswalk flags.
You would be amazed at the number of "but that's threatening violence!" reactions I've gotten to this little art project. Like the front of a Dodge Charger isn't prima facie evidence of intent to kill. Or those spiky truck lugnuts. But somehow pedestrians asking for a little respect in public spaces is violent.
posted by straw at 12:12 PM on July 29, 2022 [38 favorites]
You would be amazed at the number of "but that's threatening violence!" reactions I've gotten to this little art project. Like the front of a Dodge Charger isn't prima facie evidence of intent to kill. Or those spiky truck lugnuts. But somehow pedestrians asking for a little respect in public spaces is violent.
posted by straw at 12:12 PM on July 29, 2022 [38 favorites]
Perhaps the example that best encapsulates the hegemony we've bestowed upon cars is the beg button to cross the road: the button you have to press to "beg" for a few moments to cross the road.
Those are one of my biggest pet peeves as a pedestrian. My city has talked for years about getting rid of them, but then decided to instead start putting in "no touch" beg buttons -- you have to wave your hand in front of them instead of push them. They crowed about how fantastic they were because of covid.
All pedestrian signals should automatically change with the light!
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:14 PM on July 29, 2022 [18 favorites]
Those are one of my biggest pet peeves as a pedestrian. My city has talked for years about getting rid of them, but then decided to instead start putting in "no touch" beg buttons -- you have to wave your hand in front of them instead of push them. They crowed about how fantastic they were because of covid.
All pedestrian signals should automatically change with the light!
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:14 PM on July 29, 2022 [18 favorites]
Montreal (I'm not sure about other urban areas in Canada) has two differences which I really appreciate about how traffic signals work. Most important is that there is no right turn on red. If the light is red you stop - period. Second is that every green signal begins with a green straight arrow only, along with pedestrians crossing in parallel with the traffic. After about five seconds, after the pedestrians have filled the crosswalk, then the options to turn left and right are available. This means that a car trying to make a turn is starting from speed 0 and can see the pedestrians trying to cross already in their way.
It isn't perfect, but definitely a system I'd love to see more often.
posted by meinvt at 12:22 PM on July 29, 2022 [27 favorites]
It isn't perfect, but definitely a system I'd love to see more often.
posted by meinvt at 12:22 PM on July 29, 2022 [27 favorites]
Also, while I'm griping about pet peeves, urban intersections with those stupid right-turn slip lanes and tiny pedestrian islands drive me crazy. One of those near my house has been responsible for numerous pedestrian injuries and fatalities because of the back end of trailer trucks rolling over the island. Expecting pedestrians to stand on a couple square meters of slightly raised concrete in the middle of a busy 4-lane intersection while vehicles whizz by on all sides, just to save drivers turning right a little time, is nuts.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:22 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:22 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
never feel I’m going too fast even when roads are narrow.
Just FYI, if you follow the legal speed limit, you're usually going too fast to be safe for pedestrians.
posted by aniola at 12:23 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
Just FYI, if you follow the legal speed limit, you're usually going too fast to be safe for pedestrians.
posted by aniola at 12:23 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
>Those are one of my biggest pet peeves as a pedestrian.
fimbulvetr, I hate them, too. No matter where or how they are installed, they are always extremely inconvenient or even difficult to reach. Combined with the laziest-of-lazy diagonal curb cuts, beg buttons are super hard to reach while on a bike, wheelchair, walker, etc.
When I'm forced to use the crosswalk while biking, first I have to maneuver onto the sidewalk via the diagonal curb cut, then waddle over to the beg button on the far side of the corner, then turn my bike 180 to aim back onto the curb cut, which is usually tough because the sidewalk is so small and cluttered to begin with. Then, when the light comes, the diagonal curb cut empties me directly into moving traffic, and I then have to turn almost entirely around to get back into the crosswalk. IT IS MADDENING.
Even beg buttons placed right next to the street for bicyclists are a disaster. When I'm going straight on a road with a dedicated right turn lane (don't get me started on those), I have to leave the straight lane and cross the right-turn lane to reach the button, then waddle back across to the straight lane and hope a car hasn't occupied my spot in the meantime, which then puts me in an awkward no-man's land and forces me to cross at the crosswalk. Then, upon crossing, I have to beg to be let back into the flow of traffic.
Imagine if we did the same to cars. Just imagine.
posted by aquamvidam at 12:29 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
fimbulvetr, I hate them, too. No matter where or how they are installed, they are always extremely inconvenient or even difficult to reach. Combined with the laziest-of-lazy diagonal curb cuts, beg buttons are super hard to reach while on a bike, wheelchair, walker, etc.
When I'm forced to use the crosswalk while biking, first I have to maneuver onto the sidewalk via the diagonal curb cut, then waddle over to the beg button on the far side of the corner, then turn my bike 180 to aim back onto the curb cut, which is usually tough because the sidewalk is so small and cluttered to begin with. Then, when the light comes, the diagonal curb cut empties me directly into moving traffic, and I then have to turn almost entirely around to get back into the crosswalk. IT IS MADDENING.
Even beg buttons placed right next to the street for bicyclists are a disaster. When I'm going straight on a road with a dedicated right turn lane (don't get me started on those), I have to leave the straight lane and cross the right-turn lane to reach the button, then waddle back across to the straight lane and hope a car hasn't occupied my spot in the meantime, which then puts me in an awkward no-man's land and forces me to cross at the crosswalk. Then, upon crossing, I have to beg to be let back into the flow of traffic.
Imagine if we did the same to cars. Just imagine.
posted by aquamvidam at 12:29 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
This video of Market Street in San Francisco in 1906 is what a safe, multi-modal street can be.
Notice how people aren't separated by the way they're traveling. Notice how pedestrians cross the street without risking their lives.
This video gives me hope that we can find a better way.
posted by aniola at 12:30 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Notice how people aren't separated by the way they're traveling. Notice how pedestrians cross the street without risking their lives.
This video gives me hope that we can find a better way.
posted by aniola at 12:30 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
I went out to my woodworking shop, and cut a bunch of faux pick axes out of wood.
This is so weird. I like it.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:31 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is so weird. I like it.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:31 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
But the big thing I find is a combination of more very large, very tall vehicles and the penchant for car companies to build vehicles than can accelerate at a ridiculous rate. New trucks and SUVs have towering walls for front ends that bulldoze down the road. New vehicles can get very fast in a very short distance.
Someone demonstrated at a car show recently that every single new pickup cab is over six feet tall, even at its shortest point (the hood of the car). It seems like complete and utter madness for this to be the new standard--civilian cars taller than humans?
And what could be driving this? It can't be fuel efficiency, and these tall cabs are certainly using more material. Is it market pressure? Just a few outspoken guys in boardrooms, or...what is the mechanism for this, exactly? It's a net negative for the world.
posted by knotty knots at 12:39 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
Someone demonstrated at a car show recently that every single new pickup cab is over six feet tall, even at its shortest point (the hood of the car). It seems like complete and utter madness for this to be the new standard--civilian cars taller than humans?
And what could be driving this? It can't be fuel efficiency, and these tall cabs are certainly using more material. Is it market pressure? Just a few outspoken guys in boardrooms, or...what is the mechanism for this, exactly? It's a net negative for the world.
posted by knotty knots at 12:39 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
electric vehicles concern me with their combination of being very quiet and having crazy acceleration.
I was worried about this, too, but they still make an ugly whirring noise as they approach. Phwew!
posted by aniola at 12:40 PM on July 29, 2022
I was worried about this, too, but they still make an ugly whirring noise as they approach. Phwew!
posted by aniola at 12:40 PM on July 29, 2022
Slip lanes would never exist if we prioritized safety over speed.
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:45 PM on July 29, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 12:45 PM on July 29, 2022 [11 favorites]
My hybrid makes a an eerie, choir-of-ghost-children noise when it's on electric, I assume this is intentional so people hear me coming. My ex haaates it, which was an unexpected bonus.
The first thing I drove, and what I'd kind of like to have again, was a small economy pickup. No one makes them that small anymore in the US
posted by emjaybee at 12:46 PM on July 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
The first thing I drove, and what I'd kind of like to have again, was a small economy pickup. No one makes them that small anymore in the US
posted by emjaybee at 12:46 PM on July 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
Cars and guns are leading causes of deaths in young people and a major cause of death and injury for all ages in the US. Cars are also a major contributor to climate change which will cause an immeasurable quantity of death worldwide. All those deaths are 100% preventable by regulatory fiat. Total failure of government
posted by latkes at 12:46 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by latkes at 12:46 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
This is my favorite beg button. I hate to imagine trying to access that from a wheelchair.
What I find, living in a place where there are almost no pedestrians, is that drivers just forget that pedestrians even exist. They forget they have to watch out for them. They forget to look at sidewalks because they're so focused on the car lanes (and the stroad is so wide that your field of vision doesn't encompass both the car lanes and the sidewalks at the same time). So there's a vicious circle where drivers drive dangerously because they forget to watch out for pedestrians, so people avoid walking because it's dangerous, and the more people avoid walking, the more drivers forget they need to watch out for pedestrians. You have to make it structurally much more difficult for drivers to be fast and careless.
posted by Jeanne at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2022 [11 favorites]
What I find, living in a place where there are almost no pedestrians, is that drivers just forget that pedestrians even exist. They forget they have to watch out for them. They forget to look at sidewalks because they're so focused on the car lanes (and the stroad is so wide that your field of vision doesn't encompass both the car lanes and the sidewalks at the same time). So there's a vicious circle where drivers drive dangerously because they forget to watch out for pedestrians, so people avoid walking because it's dangerous, and the more people avoid walking, the more drivers forget they need to watch out for pedestrians. You have to make it structurally much more difficult for drivers to be fast and careless.
posted by Jeanne at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2022 [11 favorites]
One nice thing that came out of the otherwise terrible few years were outdoor parklets / restaurant seating. But if anything, they didn't go far enough and in many cases, have already been dismantled.
They should expand these parklets and close the road to cars entirely. It's not great for anyone to eat right next to a bunch of idling cars spewing exhaust and revving up their engines, and definitely not great when one of these cars ends up running over these flimsy structures.
posted by meowzilla at 12:53 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
They should expand these parklets and close the road to cars entirely. It's not great for anyone to eat right next to a bunch of idling cars spewing exhaust and revving up their engines, and definitely not great when one of these cars ends up running over these flimsy structures.
posted by meowzilla at 12:53 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you can, even when you have the lgiht and the right of way and everything else on your side, run like a scared bunny across the street.
My mom always told me never to run across the street because as a car is barreling down upon you, certain you'll be out of the way in time...you could trip and fall in their path.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:55 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
My mom always told me never to run across the street because as a car is barreling down upon you, certain you'll be out of the way in time...you could trip and fall in their path.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:55 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
The powers-that-be up here in the northern Indianapolis ‘burbs are hellbent on turning every possible intersection into a roundabout. They make being a pedestrian even worse, as there’s no real way to get the cars to stop now. There are crosswalk lines painted on the road, but good luck walking out into them, if there’s no lights to actually make the cars stop for you.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:59 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 12:59 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
The powers-that-be up here in the northern Indianapolis ‘burbs are hellbent on turning every possible intersection into a roundabout. They make being a pedestrian even worse
Agreed. I know there is a lot of discussion about roundabouts making roads safer, but I can't help but think that is only for cars, not pedestrians or cyclists. I find them terrifying when not in a vehicle as it is hard to keep track of where all the traffic is coming from.
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:01 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Agreed. I know there is a lot of discussion about roundabouts making roads safer, but I can't help but think that is only for cars, not pedestrians or cyclists. I find them terrifying when not in a vehicle as it is hard to keep track of where all the traffic is coming from.
posted by fimbulvetr at 1:01 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Montreal (I'm not sure about other urban areas in Canada) has two differences which I really appreciate about how traffic signals work. Most important is that there is no right turn on red. If the light is red you stop - period. Second is that every green signal begins with a green straight arrow only, along with pedestrians crossing in parallel with the traffic. After about five seconds, after the pedestrians have filled the crosswalk, then the options to turn left and right are available. This means that a car trying to make a turn is starting from speed 0 and can see the pedestrians trying to cross already in their way.
There are still assholes who'll turn on the green arrow, but that's a dumb ticket to get so it's not that bad. Also being Montreal there are tons of pedestrians who interpret that little hand that tells you to not start a crossing as an invitation to cross.
I'm still unsold on the curb extensions as far as way to lower speed and some of those have ridiculous sprawling vegetation (in summer) that makes turning impossible if you don't engage your car a little in the lane to see, but you can't deny they shorten the distance you have to cross.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
There are still assholes who'll turn on the green arrow, but that's a dumb ticket to get so it's not that bad. Also being Montreal there are tons of pedestrians who interpret that little hand that tells you to not start a crossing as an invitation to cross.
I'm still unsold on the curb extensions as far as way to lower speed and some of those have ridiculous sprawling vegetation (in summer) that makes turning impossible if you don't engage your car a little in the lane to see, but you can't deny they shorten the distance you have to cross.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
We are so inured to the dangers of driving — and the death toll it regularly incurs — that many people don’t recognize that the United States is an outlier among comparable countries: People are more than twice as likely to die in an automobile crash here as in Canada or parts of Europe.
Yes. And the same goes for almost every other aspect of life in the US.
Jessie Singer, author of the book There Are No Accidents, says that the things we think of as “accidents” are in fact the result of dangerous conditions in our built environments. The reality is that the more vulnerable among us suffer the consequences more than others. People who are low-income, who are disadvantaged because of their race, their immigration or housing status, or their status as pedestrians in an environment built for cars, are more at risk of dying as a result.
I regularly jaywalk, because I literally cannot walk another step some days. Once, before surgery, my rheumatologist told me she'd taken my x-rays to a conference and they were all shocked I was still walking. I was working doing housecleaning when she told me that. She complimented me on keeping my weight down the week I was chased by a frightening dude one night on the way home from a cleaning job and got lost, carrying my supplies with me. That was the night I called a friend, for the first time ever, and asked for a ride home. My friend said no, she was too tired.
We, the people, are dying at the hands of middle-class people and other working-class people with cars. It's not just the rich who kills us. It's those who are merely "comfortable," who are killing us in numbers just as great.
posted by liminal_shadows at 1:08 PM on July 29, 2022 [16 favorites]
Yes. And the same goes for almost every other aspect of life in the US.
Jessie Singer, author of the book There Are No Accidents, says that the things we think of as “accidents” are in fact the result of dangerous conditions in our built environments. The reality is that the more vulnerable among us suffer the consequences more than others. People who are low-income, who are disadvantaged because of their race, their immigration or housing status, or their status as pedestrians in an environment built for cars, are more at risk of dying as a result.
I regularly jaywalk, because I literally cannot walk another step some days. Once, before surgery, my rheumatologist told me she'd taken my x-rays to a conference and they were all shocked I was still walking. I was working doing housecleaning when she told me that. She complimented me on keeping my weight down the week I was chased by a frightening dude one night on the way home from a cleaning job and got lost, carrying my supplies with me. That was the night I called a friend, for the first time ever, and asked for a ride home. My friend said no, she was too tired.
We, the people, are dying at the hands of middle-class people and other working-class people with cars. It's not just the rich who kills us. It's those who are merely "comfortable," who are killing us in numbers just as great.
posted by liminal_shadows at 1:08 PM on July 29, 2022 [16 favorites]
We focus on individual blame, Singer says, because that makes it easier for us to believe that it couldn’t happen to us. Plus, it prevents us from having to make the hard structural changes necessary to prevent crashes from happening again: to call them accidents makes them seem at once inevitable and impossible to change.
Hit enter too soon. This deserves underscoring as well.
posted by liminal_shadows at 1:10 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hit enter too soon. This deserves underscoring as well.
posted by liminal_shadows at 1:10 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Pedestrian bridges do not encourage walkable, livable communities, nor do they improve road safety for drivers or cyclists. Separating people from the street reinforces the prioritization of personal motor vehicles, while encouraging speeding, driver negligence, and traffic fatalities.
posted by octothorpe at 1:18 PM on July 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 1:18 PM on July 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
I bike to work and my commute is a bit less than 16km/10 miles each way from one suburban part of Toronto to another. The middle of it is on quiet streets with either a bike lane or sharrows, which is the relaxing bit, but the start and end require me to ride on stroads which I'm not happy about but avoiding them would make my route much longer and the middle bit is already a detour.
There's one intersection on my commute that I will have to come onto the sidewalk to press the beg button during the daytime, it's a relatively low traffic residential street crossing a stroad and there's no guarantee a car is going to come and wait at the light any time soon so I need to get onto the sidewalk and push the button, yet on my way back at night the road will usually sense my presence and the light will change. There's a cut off time for this because it doesn't happen before 9pm or so. Obviously if I was a car it would sense my presence at any time. I'm glad that it's set up so at least on my ride home I don't need to press the beg button at that particular intersection but I can't think of a good reason it couldn't work all the time.
One intersection takes about 100 seconds for the light to change. Doesn't matter what time it's at or how many cars are waiting for the light to change or how empty the main road is. However if there are no cars and only a bike then the light won't change at all unless you press the beg button. On my way to work I don't mind it because it's at the end of a steep uphill and there are always cars around so I don't need to press the button but on the way home it's just frustrating to have to wait that long after pushing the button when the road is empty.
There's another section where I'm riding on a stroad for about 1km and the city has painted lines on the sides to narrow the lanes as a traffic calming measure. At first I thought they were poorly designed bike lanes that were a bit too narrow and would randomly disappear and start up again but then someone on Reddit mentioned what they really were and I looked it up and they were right. So now I don't ride on them but I get honked at a lot on that section because the cars want me to ride in the "bike lane" and I have no way of telling them that it's not a bike lane. Mind you there's enough grass on both sides of that street (and there's also space around all of the other stroads I have to ride on) that it could easily be widened to support a proper bike lane with physical separation and not use up any of the existing roadway but why would we spend the money on infrastructure that cars don't use?
One of my clients is moving into my neighbourhood. He was living in a much quieter area, almost an exurb really, and was excited to be able to ride his ebike to the main street to get something to eat or drink instead of having to drive. The main street has two streets running parallel to it to help divert traffic and he thought it would be a good idea to ride on that as it wouldn't be as busy. I had to explain to him that drivers treated it like a highway because there were very few lights or entryways on it and that he would be much safer riding on the main street itself. I also had to tell him that he couldn't let his bikes out of his sight because they could be stolen in under a minute but that's another issue.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:36 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
There's one intersection on my commute that I will have to come onto the sidewalk to press the beg button during the daytime, it's a relatively low traffic residential street crossing a stroad and there's no guarantee a car is going to come and wait at the light any time soon so I need to get onto the sidewalk and push the button, yet on my way back at night the road will usually sense my presence and the light will change. There's a cut off time for this because it doesn't happen before 9pm or so. Obviously if I was a car it would sense my presence at any time. I'm glad that it's set up so at least on my ride home I don't need to press the beg button at that particular intersection but I can't think of a good reason it couldn't work all the time.
One intersection takes about 100 seconds for the light to change. Doesn't matter what time it's at or how many cars are waiting for the light to change or how empty the main road is. However if there are no cars and only a bike then the light won't change at all unless you press the beg button. On my way to work I don't mind it because it's at the end of a steep uphill and there are always cars around so I don't need to press the button but on the way home it's just frustrating to have to wait that long after pushing the button when the road is empty.
There's another section where I'm riding on a stroad for about 1km and the city has painted lines on the sides to narrow the lanes as a traffic calming measure. At first I thought they were poorly designed bike lanes that were a bit too narrow and would randomly disappear and start up again but then someone on Reddit mentioned what they really were and I looked it up and they were right. So now I don't ride on them but I get honked at a lot on that section because the cars want me to ride in the "bike lane" and I have no way of telling them that it's not a bike lane. Mind you there's enough grass on both sides of that street (and there's also space around all of the other stroads I have to ride on) that it could easily be widened to support a proper bike lane with physical separation and not use up any of the existing roadway but why would we spend the money on infrastructure that cars don't use?
One of my clients is moving into my neighbourhood. He was living in a much quieter area, almost an exurb really, and was excited to be able to ride his ebike to the main street to get something to eat or drink instead of having to drive. The main street has two streets running parallel to it to help divert traffic and he thought it would be a good idea to ride on that as it wouldn't be as busy. I had to explain to him that drivers treated it like a highway because there were very few lights or entryways on it and that he would be much safer riding on the main street itself. I also had to tell him that he couldn't let his bikes out of his sight because they could be stolen in under a minute but that's another issue.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:36 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Activists like Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns illustrate how car-dependent, suburban sprawl is simply not sustainable from the perspectives of economics, health, or community.
Yes. The problem is that too often people see this as an isolated problem, when the problem starts with sprawl AND with large homes that outsize the families that live in them.
Outlaw owning more space than you can use. Build up, not out, and have large, spacious, sprawling parks, and let large swathes of land go back to the wild. Make walking not only possible, but friendly to even the disabled. Make driving as unnecessary as it it unethical and unpleasant. No one deserves to have more bedrooms than they have people.
I walk to the pharmacy in my town, a very pedestrian and bike friendly town. But I live on the poor outskirts and my walk to the pharmacy includes a 1/3 mile stretch where the sidewalk disappears entirely, without warning (an area with multiple large apartment complexes within a square mile). There are multiple "beg buttons" along the way, which are too high for me to kick, so no one in a wheelchair could touch them, and they're germy as fuck, but since you can't kick, well. You deserve it for being afoot.
Rage by those in cars:
A few years back I was at the Costco gas pumps. I pulled up to the pump and opened my door to get out, just as the guy at the pump behind me in his giant SUV tried to pull around. He honked and I looked around, and seeing him pausing, I thought he was waiting for me to finish getting out, so I kept opening my door. He decided I was fucking with him, instead of getting out of my car so he leaped out and ran over and stuck his beefy hands around my throat and began choking me, while his already florid face turned redder. I weighed less than 125 lbs at the time and was visibly female. The cop who showed up when I called asked me if "I'd provoked him." No one ever followed up after I gave them his license plate number. No one at Costco helped me or came over or asked if I was ok or called the cops, including the attendant. Everyone saw what happened.
In Seattle I was getting into a taxicab for a medical appointment in front of my apartment building, in a lane that was parking for sections of the day. A car came speeding down that lane and seeing me getting into the taxi they honked and swerved at the last second. I spun and threw my water bottle as hard as I could, bouncing it off the back window, and they immediately pulled to a stop in their lane, hanging out the windows and screaming to the taxi driver "Did you see what she did?"
Last month I was making a left against traffic, out of a store parking lot into a center turn lane and someone blew over the top of the hill, far over the speed limit at the same time they were entering the center lane to turn left. They almost hit me, and they pulled to a dead stop in the center lane after swerving in front of me and the guy got out of his car, maskless, to run over to mine and scream at me for a few minutes.
There are so many of these incidents that even I, as a driver who legitimately often needs wheels, cannot support cars even a little bit.
posted by liminal_shadows at 1:37 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
Yes. The problem is that too often people see this as an isolated problem, when the problem starts with sprawl AND with large homes that outsize the families that live in them.
Outlaw owning more space than you can use. Build up, not out, and have large, spacious, sprawling parks, and let large swathes of land go back to the wild. Make walking not only possible, but friendly to even the disabled. Make driving as unnecessary as it it unethical and unpleasant. No one deserves to have more bedrooms than they have people.
I walk to the pharmacy in my town, a very pedestrian and bike friendly town. But I live on the poor outskirts and my walk to the pharmacy includes a 1/3 mile stretch where the sidewalk disappears entirely, without warning (an area with multiple large apartment complexes within a square mile). There are multiple "beg buttons" along the way, which are too high for me to kick, so no one in a wheelchair could touch them, and they're germy as fuck, but since you can't kick, well. You deserve it for being afoot.
Rage by those in cars:
A few years back I was at the Costco gas pumps. I pulled up to the pump and opened my door to get out, just as the guy at the pump behind me in his giant SUV tried to pull around. He honked and I looked around, and seeing him pausing, I thought he was waiting for me to finish getting out, so I kept opening my door. He decided I was fucking with him, instead of getting out of my car so he leaped out and ran over and stuck his beefy hands around my throat and began choking me, while his already florid face turned redder. I weighed less than 125 lbs at the time and was visibly female. The cop who showed up when I called asked me if "I'd provoked him." No one ever followed up after I gave them his license plate number. No one at Costco helped me or came over or asked if I was ok or called the cops, including the attendant. Everyone saw what happened.
In Seattle I was getting into a taxicab for a medical appointment in front of my apartment building, in a lane that was parking for sections of the day. A car came speeding down that lane and seeing me getting into the taxi they honked and swerved at the last second. I spun and threw my water bottle as hard as I could, bouncing it off the back window, and they immediately pulled to a stop in their lane, hanging out the windows and screaming to the taxi driver "Did you see what she did?"
Last month I was making a left against traffic, out of a store parking lot into a center turn lane and someone blew over the top of the hill, far over the speed limit at the same time they were entering the center lane to turn left. They almost hit me, and they pulled to a dead stop in the center lane after swerving in front of me and the guy got out of his car, maskless, to run over to mine and scream at me for a few minutes.
There are so many of these incidents that even I, as a driver who legitimately often needs wheels, cannot support cars even a little bit.
posted by liminal_shadows at 1:37 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
We have a Main Street in our small town, and they've put up markers in the middle to remind people to stop for pedestrians crossing from the shops and restaurants to the parking area across the road. It's made people slow down, even slower than the posted 30 mph through town, which is nice.
Drivers here just run those things over.
posted by octothorpe at 1:55 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Drivers here just run those things over.
posted by octothorpe at 1:55 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
When I first learned to drive, man, cars were probably 1/3 the size/weight they are now. I had a Honda 1200, and also drove a Ford Fiesta. My buddy had a Fiat X1/9. I swear to god there are SUVs today that could straddle that Fiat and not leave a scratch on it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:57 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:57 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
When I'm driving down Cherry Street here in Toledo I'll get remarks from visiting family about all the people basically playing Frogger instead of using the crosswalks.
All of the apartment complexes are on one side and not much else. Downtown is on the other side. Between them are 6-8 lanes of traffic. Crosswalks are spaced pretty far apart and you often have to cross 3 lanes and then wait another cycle to cross the other 3 lanes.
What else do you expect to happen with this layout?
posted by charred husk at 2:01 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
All of the apartment complexes are on one side and not much else. Downtown is on the other side. Between them are 6-8 lanes of traffic. Crosswalks are spaced pretty far apart and you often have to cross 3 lanes and then wait another cycle to cross the other 3 lanes.
What else do you expect to happen with this layout?
posted by charred husk at 2:01 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
I swear to god there are SUVs today that could straddle that Fiat and not leave a scratch on it.
The reason that's relevant is that these bigger motor vehicles are more likely to kill pedestrians. Which would you rather get hit by: a pebble? or a large rock? a small car? or a big truck?
posted by aniola at 2:01 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
The reason that's relevant is that these bigger motor vehicles are more likely to kill pedestrians. Which would you rather get hit by: a pebble? or a large rock? a small car? or a big truck?
posted by aniola at 2:01 PM on July 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
Jessie Singer, author of the book There Are No Accidents, says that the things we think of as “accidents” are in fact the result of dangerous conditions in our built environments.
FWIW this is also the conclusion of my colleagues in public health who deeply study both the environmental factors and the related health outcomes.
posted by entropone at 2:09 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
FWIW this is also the conclusion of my colleagues in public health who deeply study both the environmental factors and the related health outcomes.
posted by entropone at 2:09 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Since I've moved back to suburbia I've grown increasingly despondent about cars. The noise from the 6 lane stroad is bad enough, but the number of crashes makes me hate it even more. So much money, time, and stress people have to waste because everything is designed for throughput over safety. Then I look at the giant parking lots full of millions of dollars worth of cars just sitting there, losing value every day while the owners pay interest on their 5 year loans. The huge insurance payments that are so high because, again, throughput over safety. Plus, driving just turns people into assholes. Even people who don't realize it and are constantly distracted by their phones or whatever are exercising a level of vigilance that is unsustainable for human health. Worse, it's nowhere near enough to counteract the terrible design that encourages dangerous driving and is not resilient to the inevitable distraction that befalls everyone from time to time. (Some more often than others, but nobody is immune)
And that's not even getting into the utter hellscape it is for road users who aren't driving.
Funny how I didn't really understand quite how good I had it when I lived in Miami. It seemed pretty bad at the time, but it's nothing compared to the utter shit the highways masquerading as roads are where I live now.
posted by wierdo at 2:13 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
And that's not even getting into the utter hellscape it is for road users who aren't driving.
Funny how I didn't really understand quite how good I had it when I lived in Miami. It seemed pretty bad at the time, but it's nothing compared to the utter shit the highways masquerading as roads are where I live now.
posted by wierdo at 2:13 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm glad that others have mentioned Not Just Bikes and Strong Towns. (There's even more content on Nebula!) When COVID lockdowns hit, I decided to get in shape, and I started walking. A lot. Still, do, 7-10 miles every day. Even in my small-ish town, where the widest stroad is 5 lanes total (2 + 2 + center turn), I'm noticing a lot of pedestrian-hostile infrastructure all over. Sidewalks that just... end, with nothing on either side of the street. The only real option is to walk in the street, and I prefer to go against traffic so I can see what's approaching.
Most drivers are fairly okay, some are not. Some (trucks, usually) make a big show of roaring engine and MAXIMUM ACCELERATION to cut off a pedestrian in the crosswalk, because they'll be god-damned if they'll let a walker cross their path. Whatever, I have a tiny video camera clipped to the bill of my hat, and if anyone is particularly assholeish, video gets sent to the local police.
I had a work thing in Ft. Worth, TX years ago, and I remember trying to leave my hotel to the convenience store across the stroad. It was like eight or nine total lanes wide, and after pushing the crosswalk button, I sat there in the heat for many, many minutes until the signals reluctantly changed. I'm a fairly brisk walker; my mile pace is usually under 14 minutes. But even so, I wasn't even halfway across this intersection before the WALK signal changed to flashing DON'T WALK, and I still had like two lanes to go when it changed to steady DON'T WALK. What the actual fuck? How is someone with a walker or cane, or even someone who walks marginally slower than me, supposed to get across? And how did anyone approve that signaling, thinking that was okay?
I'm starting to turn into that cranky guy with too much time on his hands, because I'm finding pedestrian (and cyclist) -hostile things all over town, and I'm starting to get very vocal about them. It doesn't have to be this way, but god damn are some people in love with their cars.
posted by xedrik at 2:16 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
Most drivers are fairly okay, some are not. Some (trucks, usually) make a big show of roaring engine and MAXIMUM ACCELERATION to cut off a pedestrian in the crosswalk, because they'll be god-damned if they'll let a walker cross their path. Whatever, I have a tiny video camera clipped to the bill of my hat, and if anyone is particularly assholeish, video gets sent to the local police.
I had a work thing in Ft. Worth, TX years ago, and I remember trying to leave my hotel to the convenience store across the stroad. It was like eight or nine total lanes wide, and after pushing the crosswalk button, I sat there in the heat for many, many minutes until the signals reluctantly changed. I'm a fairly brisk walker; my mile pace is usually under 14 minutes. But even so, I wasn't even halfway across this intersection before the WALK signal changed to flashing DON'T WALK, and I still had like two lanes to go when it changed to steady DON'T WALK. What the actual fuck? How is someone with a walker or cane, or even someone who walks marginally slower than me, supposed to get across? And how did anyone approve that signaling, thinking that was okay?
I'm starting to turn into that cranky guy with too much time on his hands, because I'm finding pedestrian (and cyclist) -hostile things all over town, and I'm starting to get very vocal about them. It doesn't have to be this way, but god damn are some people in love with their cars.
posted by xedrik at 2:16 PM on July 29, 2022 [12 favorites]
I think jaywalking is often safer for many roads.
At least three times in the past two years, drivers have drove straight at me while I was in the crosswalk while making left/right hand turns. They did not slam on the brakes, swerve, or have any indication that they saw me. The only way they'd know that I existed would be the sound of my body hitting their car.
The past two car accidents I've witnessed have been from one driver stopping for a pedestrian at a crosswalk, and the other driver plowing right into the back of the other stopped driver.
If drivers have trouble seeing other cars on the road stopped right in front of them, I sure don't expect them to see pedestrians.
posted by meowzilla at 2:19 PM on July 29, 2022 [9 favorites]
At least three times in the past two years, drivers have drove straight at me while I was in the crosswalk while making left/right hand turns. They did not slam on the brakes, swerve, or have any indication that they saw me. The only way they'd know that I existed would be the sound of my body hitting their car.
The past two car accidents I've witnessed have been from one driver stopping for a pedestrian at a crosswalk, and the other driver plowing right into the back of the other stopped driver.
If drivers have trouble seeing other cars on the road stopped right in front of them, I sure don't expect them to see pedestrians.
posted by meowzilla at 2:19 PM on July 29, 2022 [9 favorites]
My city (Louisville, KY!) has never been pedestrian or bike friendly, even as we've made supposed progress (our current mayor is known disdainfully as Mayor McBikeLane on both sides). Bad design, sprawl, crappy public transportation . . . all the stuff.
But there is definitely an uptick in drivers that just don't act like the basic laws, safety, and social contracts matter. I regularly see people blow through red lights, harass cyclists and walkers, use phones, whatever . . . all while our violent crime numbers remain elevated. Sometimes they combine: we had a shootout between two moving vehicles on the highway last week, apparently over a traffic-related issue.
And this has all heated up during the pandemic/Trump/BLM period of the last 6-ish years. I know infrastructure and car-centrism is the core, but unraveling social cohesion is, as is said all to often these days, adding accelerant to the conflagration.
posted by pt68 at 2:21 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
But there is definitely an uptick in drivers that just don't act like the basic laws, safety, and social contracts matter. I regularly see people blow through red lights, harass cyclists and walkers, use phones, whatever . . . all while our violent crime numbers remain elevated. Sometimes they combine: we had a shootout between two moving vehicles on the highway last week, apparently over a traffic-related issue.
And this has all heated up during the pandemic/Trump/BLM period of the last 6-ish years. I know infrastructure and car-centrism is the core, but unraveling social cohesion is, as is said all to often these days, adding accelerant to the conflagration.
posted by pt68 at 2:21 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
octothorpe: They did the first days they were up, or did at night. I remember driving to the grocery store/school dropoff which involves going down Main St, and several were knocked down one morning. There wasn't a storm overnight, so I figured one of the wannabe racers did it at midnight or something. I imagine they got caught the next time they tried as they've not been bothered since. They [police department] also have one of those watch tower things that lift a small cab up into the air parked nearly all the time in that parking area, so it keeps people from doing it in the daytime.
They also have a lot of crosswalks along that stretch so it helps. I'd like it if they put in a sidewalk/bike path along the rest of main st to at least the Walgreens, and even a crosswalk with a light to allow people to go across Hwy 68 to the Ingle's and Walmart. That would allow the people to go safely along the road on foot/wheels. There was an incident where I presume someone was hit while crossing a small bridge over the creek because the driver didn't slow down or scooch over a tad as there is a very narrow shoulder right there. It's about 500 feet from the markers.
posted by tlwright at 2:22 PM on July 29, 2022
They also have a lot of crosswalks along that stretch so it helps. I'd like it if they put in a sidewalk/bike path along the rest of main st to at least the Walgreens, and even a crosswalk with a light to allow people to go across Hwy 68 to the Ingle's and Walmart. That would allow the people to go safely along the road on foot/wheels. There was an incident where I presume someone was hit while crossing a small bridge over the creek because the driver didn't slow down or scooch over a tad as there is a very narrow shoulder right there. It's about 500 feet from the markers.
posted by tlwright at 2:22 PM on July 29, 2022
electric vehicles concern me with their combination of being very quiet and having crazy acceleration
Not to mention, the frankly delusional idea espoused mostly by Elon Musk, that these vehicles are about to become fully self driving.
posted by Lanark at 2:26 PM on July 29, 2022
Not to mention, the frankly delusional idea espoused mostly by Elon Musk, that these vehicles are about to become fully self driving.
posted by Lanark at 2:26 PM on July 29, 2022
I also had to tell him that he couldn't let his bikes out of his sight because they could be stolen in under a minute but that's another issue.
That! Ebikes would be great as an intermediate way to solve our transportation issues in some situations, but in many cities, any bike not solidly welded to street furniture will be insta-stolen. I hate this. Now in our city we've also got the additionnal factor of it's miserable to bike for 4-5 months of the year because of the snow and cold, so we need something else.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
That! Ebikes would be great as an intermediate way to solve our transportation issues in some situations, but in many cities, any bike not solidly welded to street furniture will be insta-stolen. I hate this. Now in our city we've also got the additionnal factor of it's miserable to bike for 4-5 months of the year because of the snow and cold, so we need something else.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
After about five seconds, after the pedestrians have filled the crosswalk, then the options to turn left and right are available. This means that a car trying to make a turn is starting from speed 0 and can see the pedestrians trying to cross already in their way.
This is really clever.
I am both a driver and a pedestrian. I try to be a cautious driver, but I have almost hit someone because the position of the a-pillar on my car is perfectly placed to block my view of someone stepping off into the crosswalk I'm turning into. It is as though no one designing the car considered it important to be able to see a pedestrian in that situation.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:37 PM on July 29, 2022 [13 favorites]
This is really clever.
I am both a driver and a pedestrian. I try to be a cautious driver, but I have almost hit someone because the position of the a-pillar on my car is perfectly placed to block my view of someone stepping off into the crosswalk I'm turning into. It is as though no one designing the car considered it important to be able to see a pedestrian in that situation.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:37 PM on July 29, 2022 [13 favorites]
Now in our city we've also got the additionnal factor of it's miserable to bike for 4-5 months of the year because of the snow and cold, so we need something else.
I had a friend that biked year-round in Winnipeg. My cut-off temp is -10C because after that for me it stops being type 1 or 2 fun but she is apparently made of sterner stuff.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:04 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had a friend that biked year-round in Winnipeg. My cut-off temp is -10C because after that for me it stops being type 1 or 2 fun but she is apparently made of sterner stuff.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:04 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
I had a friend that biked year-round in Winnipeg. My cut-off temp is -10C because after that for me it stops being type 1 or 2 fun but she is apparently made of sterner stuff.
Yeah so that works for a small subset of the population. I think you'd find even healthy adults would have a hard time doing that.
I think our best bet is to acknowledge most drives are short and don't need large cars capable of 300 miles and 0-60 in 10 seconds. If we normalized golf cart type vehicles we'd not have to completely redesign our cities (which is not realistic), and still accommodate the large subset of the population who can't or won't walk or bike.
posted by geoff. at 3:13 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Yeah so that works for a small subset of the population. I think you'd find even healthy adults would have a hard time doing that.
I think our best bet is to acknowledge most drives are short and don't need large cars capable of 300 miles and 0-60 in 10 seconds. If we normalized golf cart type vehicles we'd not have to completely redesign our cities (which is not realistic), and still accommodate the large subset of the population who can't or won't walk or bike.
posted by geoff. at 3:13 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)
TLDR: it's not the cold, it's infrastructure.
posted by meowzilla at 3:30 PM on July 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
TLDR: it's not the cold, it's infrastructure.
posted by meowzilla at 3:30 PM on July 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
I’m not comfortable attributing the high rate of these accidents entirely to structural problems.
As a bike rider I have had 4 major collisions with cars, in one of which I was thrown high into the air and well over 25 ft. back in the direction I’d been coming from, and in another I rolled all the way back over the car from hood to trunk and miraculously landed on my feet, but spoiled it by falling forward as soon as my feet touched the ground and gouging up the palms of my hands pretty badly.
Three of the drivers were men, including the driver whose car I rolled over and who hit me intentionally after a confrontation at a stop light a block behind.
The fourth was a middle aged woman, and that accident happened to be entirely my fault. She was so upset and worried about me that she was more in need of medical attention than I was.
Angry, aggressive and even murderous driving is a big problem in the US in my opinion, and most of that driving is hugely disproportionately done by men, which is not what we usually mean when we talk about a "structural problem."
posted by jamjam at 3:31 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
As a bike rider I have had 4 major collisions with cars, in one of which I was thrown high into the air and well over 25 ft. back in the direction I’d been coming from, and in another I rolled all the way back over the car from hood to trunk and miraculously landed on my feet, but spoiled it by falling forward as soon as my feet touched the ground and gouging up the palms of my hands pretty badly.
Three of the drivers were men, including the driver whose car I rolled over and who hit me intentionally after a confrontation at a stop light a block behind.
The fourth was a middle aged woman, and that accident happened to be entirely my fault. She was so upset and worried about me that she was more in need of medical attention than I was.
Angry, aggressive and even murderous driving is a big problem in the US in my opinion, and most of that driving is hugely disproportionately done by men, which is not what we usually mean when we talk about a "structural problem."
posted by jamjam at 3:31 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
It's a structural problem that the built environment allows driving at speeds that can lead to cyclists being thrown through the air, rather than destroying or disabling any car that's going fast enough to seriously hurt anyone. If it were impossible to drive aggressively in urban areas without instantly totalling your front end, you'd see much less of this kind of behaviour.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 3:50 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 3:50 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can)
TLDR: it's not the cold, it's infrastructure.
It's also the cold. The weather in Helsinki seems to be on par with Toronto, and here in Toronto yeah it's an infrastructure problem. The days I don't ride because it is too cold are quite rare, but the days I don't ride because the roads are a mess of snow and ice are a lot more common. But most of Canada gets colder winters than Toronto and Winnipeg is another level of cold altogether.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:00 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
TLDR: it's not the cold, it's infrastructure.
It's also the cold. The weather in Helsinki seems to be on par with Toronto, and here in Toronto yeah it's an infrastructure problem. The days I don't ride because it is too cold are quite rare, but the days I don't ride because the roads are a mess of snow and ice are a lot more common. But most of Canada gets colder winters than Toronto and Winnipeg is another level of cold altogether.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:00 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Kutsuwamushi: I am both a driver and a pedestrian. I try to be a cautious driver, but I have almost hit someone because the position of the a-pillar on my car is perfectly placed to block my view of someone stepping off into the crosswalk I'm turning into. It is as though no one designing the car considered it important to be able to see a pedestrian in that situation.
Yes! I came here to say just this. A few years back I switched from my beloved old 2004 Honda Civic to a 2014 Chevy Volt, and though the difference in the width of the front pillar may look negligible in those photos, it makes an astonishing difference in my field of vision, especially in parking lots, or if I'm at an intersection and someone is in the crosswalk to my left. I try to be super-vigilant and keep my whole upper body on a swivel, but I've been horrifyingly close to hitting a few pedestrians. Looking at other cars on the road, it seems like this particular styling trend is well-nigh universal. Possibly a small factor in the increased mayhem, but an infuriatingly avoidable one if car designers were paying attention.
posted by Kat Allison at 4:14 PM on July 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yes! I came here to say just this. A few years back I switched from my beloved old 2004 Honda Civic to a 2014 Chevy Volt, and though the difference in the width of the front pillar may look negligible in those photos, it makes an astonishing difference in my field of vision, especially in parking lots, or if I'm at an intersection and someone is in the crosswalk to my left. I try to be super-vigilant and keep my whole upper body on a swivel, but I've been horrifyingly close to hitting a few pedestrians. Looking at other cars on the road, it seems like this particular styling trend is well-nigh universal. Possibly a small factor in the increased mayhem, but an infuriatingly avoidable one if car designers were paying attention.
posted by Kat Allison at 4:14 PM on July 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
I live in Chicago and am almost hit by cars on a weekly basis.
Ah, memories. When I was a grad student, a friend and I went down to the Newberry Library every week for dissertation research, and we kept a running tally of the cars who nearly ran us over.
I live in a semi-rural area with very minimal public transportation--one of my very first thoughts when I came out for my campus visit was "oh wow, I'm going to have to relearn how to drive"--and one of the scariest things for me as a driver are the mailboxes along one of the very busy main routes. Many houses have their mailbox on the opposite side of the road--a road where cars are regularly doing 50+ MPH--and so you see elderly people trying to evade fast traffic in order to get their mail. It's especially worrisome in the winter, when the roads can get slippery.
Pedestrians have the right of way here, and most cars will stop for you, but occasionally you get the jerk who just blazes through the crosswalk.
As a very small person, the popularity of very tall motor vehicles is...alarming.
posted by thomas j wise at 4:50 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ah, memories. When I was a grad student, a friend and I went down to the Newberry Library every week for dissertation research, and we kept a running tally of the cars who nearly ran us over.
I live in a semi-rural area with very minimal public transportation--one of my very first thoughts when I came out for my campus visit was "oh wow, I'm going to have to relearn how to drive"--and one of the scariest things for me as a driver are the mailboxes along one of the very busy main routes. Many houses have their mailbox on the opposite side of the road--a road where cars are regularly doing 50+ MPH--and so you see elderly people trying to evade fast traffic in order to get their mail. It's especially worrisome in the winter, when the roads can get slippery.
Pedestrians have the right of way here, and most cars will stop for you, but occasionally you get the jerk who just blazes through the crosswalk.
As a very small person, the popularity of very tall motor vehicles is...alarming.
posted by thomas j wise at 4:50 PM on July 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Also this: Bigger trucks are directly resulting in the deaths of more people.
posted by Popular Ethics at 5:43 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Popular Ethics at 5:43 PM on July 29, 2022 [8 favorites]
In the 1980s, I lived about 1.5 miles from US 19, the road discussed in the article.
We all called "Useless 19."
Look at a map of Pinellas County.
19 is the main thoroughfare for north-south traffic, lined on both sides with shopping plazas and businesses. Commuters and tourists and folks running errands turning on and off the road all over the place.
There are many reasons I left Florida for Boston as soon as I could. The ability to get around without a car was a large part of it.
posted by cheshyre at 6:27 PM on July 29, 2022
We all called "Useless 19."
Look at a map of Pinellas County.
19 is the main thoroughfare for north-south traffic, lined on both sides with shopping plazas and businesses. Commuters and tourists and folks running errands turning on and off the road all over the place.
There are many reasons I left Florida for Boston as soon as I could. The ability to get around without a car was a large part of it.
posted by cheshyre at 6:27 PM on July 29, 2022
Angry, aggressive and even murderous driving is a big problem in the US in my opinion, and most of that driving is hugely disproportionately done by men, which is not what we usually mean when we talk about a "structural problem."
I got a Hulu trial recently and as a result have been seeing more commercials than I have in years. Maybe I'm just overly sensitized from a lack of exposure, but I don't recall car ads being such aggressive showcases for outrageous racecar driving down regular streets? It sort of shocked me. It's of course not the source of the problem but yeah, driving like the road is yours alone and anyone else using it is merely an obstacle is clearly aspirational to many drivers today.
And then there is also for sure the inattentiveness, which I'm sure is not helped by being aloft in the cab of your megatruck 10 feet of the ground, removed from the rest of the world in your mobile living room. A few weeks ago, I was inches from being T-boned in my tiny old Toyota truck by an inattentive driver in a huge modern truck just...pulling into traffic in front of me, even after they seemed to see me, not seeming to hear until the last possible second that I was laying on my horn while desperately slamming on my brake to screech to a stop. They noticed just in time to also stop, about a foot short of a collision. Even at low speed (25 mph) it was terrifying and enraging to me.
Though I love driving my little truck, I really miss living in an area with more robust public transit and walkable neighborhoods. But my neighborhood (like many in this city) barely has sidewalks, and the roads are scary, crowded with humongous vehicles with drivers who are careless at best and hellbent on terrorizing others at worst.
posted by moonbeam at 7:10 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
I got a Hulu trial recently and as a result have been seeing more commercials than I have in years. Maybe I'm just overly sensitized from a lack of exposure, but I don't recall car ads being such aggressive showcases for outrageous racecar driving down regular streets? It sort of shocked me. It's of course not the source of the problem but yeah, driving like the road is yours alone and anyone else using it is merely an obstacle is clearly aspirational to many drivers today.
And then there is also for sure the inattentiveness, which I'm sure is not helped by being aloft in the cab of your megatruck 10 feet of the ground, removed from the rest of the world in your mobile living room. A few weeks ago, I was inches from being T-boned in my tiny old Toyota truck by an inattentive driver in a huge modern truck just...pulling into traffic in front of me, even after they seemed to see me, not seeming to hear until the last possible second that I was laying on my horn while desperately slamming on my brake to screech to a stop. They noticed just in time to also stop, about a foot short of a collision. Even at low speed (25 mph) it was terrifying and enraging to me.
Though I love driving my little truck, I really miss living in an area with more robust public transit and walkable neighborhoods. But my neighborhood (like many in this city) barely has sidewalks, and the roads are scary, crowded with humongous vehicles with drivers who are careless at best and hellbent on terrorizing others at worst.
posted by moonbeam at 7:10 PM on July 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
Ban guns and ban cars! I swear I dream about this every single night. Please no more cars. Car brain is TOXIC and I've come to carrying things to throw at drivers who are absolutely, 100%, guaranteed not to see me trying to cross TO A FUCKING MALL in the middle of the day.
posted by It Was Capitalism All Along at 9:20 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by It Was Capitalism All Along at 9:20 PM on July 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
They make being a pedestrian even worse, as there’s no real way to get the cars to stop now. There are crosswalk lines painted on the road, but good luck walking out into them, if there’s no lights to actually make the cars stop for you.
I find them terrifying when not in a vehicle as it is hard to keep track of where all the traffic is coming from.
Roundabouts are safer for pedestrians since they funnel all car traffic into one route, slowed down and moving at a steady speed. Just like drivers, pedestrians mis-perceive roundabouts as more dangerous when they're used to stoplights, and need to learn to cross roundabouts.
posted by michaelh at 11:14 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
I find them terrifying when not in a vehicle as it is hard to keep track of where all the traffic is coming from.
Roundabouts are safer for pedestrians since they funnel all car traffic into one route, slowed down and moving at a steady speed. Just like drivers, pedestrians mis-perceive roundabouts as more dangerous when they're used to stoplights, and need to learn to cross roundabouts.
posted by michaelh at 11:14 PM on July 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
I read this article last week and shuddered. I didn't know it was actually the deadliest, but I'm not surprised. I grew up around US19 and visit the area from time to time. It's a terrifying 6-lane highway with traffic lights. I could never quite put my finger on why it made me so uncomfortable to drive on US19, but I'd describe the sensation as whatever the opposite of claustrophobia is—agoraphobia? You just feel that there is potential danger and chaos on all sides, especially with so many people entering and exiting randomly to all the strip malls and businesses that line it. I've always avoided it if I could and taken alternate roads. It perfectly exemplifies the dystopian worst of American cities.
posted by amusebuche at 12:34 AM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by amusebuche at 12:34 AM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was waiting for a roundabout evangelist to show up after I posted my comment!
My city has replaced several intersections near me with roundabouts. They have been in place for a number of years now, so everyone, including me are used to how to use them by now. I walk through at least one on a daily basis.
My personal experience is that they are much more dangerous than the previous intersections for pedestrians as you have a stream of cars coming from behind you (if you are crossing with the flow of traffic) around the roundabout with drivers who do not want to stop, and are encouraged in this behaviour by the roundabout which does not require them to stop. So if they are busy paying attention to other cars, the drivers tend to miss the pedestrians.
On top of that, I hate them because now I have to walk 4 times the distance just to get through the damn intersection as the roundabouts are so much larger than the original intersection.
Roundabouts are for the convenience of cars and increased throughput of vehicular traffic, not for pedestrians or cyclists. If there is any need of proof that they are more hazardous for pedestrians, the city had to install flashing overhead pedestrian activated lights to alert drivers there are pedestrians trying to cross at one of the Roundabouts near me. Drivers still miss the damn flashing yellow lights and regularly try to mow me down. And this isn’t an intersection with light and rare pedestrian traffic, it is right next to a high school and a major office complex.
Roundabouts really suck for pedestrians.
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:51 AM on July 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
My city has replaced several intersections near me with roundabouts. They have been in place for a number of years now, so everyone, including me are used to how to use them by now. I walk through at least one on a daily basis.
My personal experience is that they are much more dangerous than the previous intersections for pedestrians as you have a stream of cars coming from behind you (if you are crossing with the flow of traffic) around the roundabout with drivers who do not want to stop, and are encouraged in this behaviour by the roundabout which does not require them to stop. So if they are busy paying attention to other cars, the drivers tend to miss the pedestrians.
On top of that, I hate them because now I have to walk 4 times the distance just to get through the damn intersection as the roundabouts are so much larger than the original intersection.
Roundabouts are for the convenience of cars and increased throughput of vehicular traffic, not for pedestrians or cyclists. If there is any need of proof that they are more hazardous for pedestrians, the city had to install flashing overhead pedestrian activated lights to alert drivers there are pedestrians trying to cross at one of the Roundabouts near me. Drivers still miss the damn flashing yellow lights and regularly try to mow me down. And this isn’t an intersection with light and rare pedestrian traffic, it is right next to a high school and a major office complex.
Roundabouts really suck for pedestrians.
posted by fimbulvetr at 4:51 AM on July 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
Over here in Poland I've had a front row seat to a rules of the road change that I suspect would blow American drivers' brains: since a year ago, the pedestrian has the right of way. On crosswalks without lights, that's always - as long as there's someone next to it who looks like they might decide to cross, you stop, period, and it's on you as the driver to be vigilant about it. About the only way for a pedestrian to be at fault for a crash is when they ignore a red light. (And beg buttons have gone the way of the dodo in Warsaw, replaced by surprisingly reliable cameras.) The clamour from drivers was deafening, but a year later it's so much safer to walk around, and that's in generally good walkable infrastructure. 30% less crosswalk casualties nationwide.
On an infrastructure level, I'm currently in a village that was heading the American way until a few years ago - public transport was practically dead, everyone had a big car because farming and dirt roads, and people loved driving highway-fast on any stretch of road that finally got asphalt. About 3 years ago the county government must have hired a really good road safety engineer because the speed bumps are now deployed with sharpshooter precision, as are random traffic islands that don't even have a crosswalk or turn associated, they're just there to force people to slow down, swerve and pay attention. The road outside the cottage is now back to the lazy traffic speeds from when it was a dirt road, despite more than three times as many houses on it. Not only do I read about way less accidents with human casualties, I haven't seen a dead cat on the side of the road this summer at all. (I kinda want to put up a memorial tablet by the new speed bump where my cat got hit a few years ago, or at least send the road safety person flowers.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 7:04 AM on July 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
On an infrastructure level, I'm currently in a village that was heading the American way until a few years ago - public transport was practically dead, everyone had a big car because farming and dirt roads, and people loved driving highway-fast on any stretch of road that finally got asphalt. About 3 years ago the county government must have hired a really good road safety engineer because the speed bumps are now deployed with sharpshooter precision, as are random traffic islands that don't even have a crosswalk or turn associated, they're just there to force people to slow down, swerve and pay attention. The road outside the cottage is now back to the lazy traffic speeds from when it was a dirt road, despite more than three times as many houses on it. Not only do I read about way less accidents with human casualties, I haven't seen a dead cat on the side of the road this summer at all. (I kinda want to put up a memorial tablet by the new speed bump where my cat got hit a few years ago, or at least send the road safety person flowers.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 7:04 AM on July 30, 2022 [14 favorites]
I moved to a place that has pedestrian-first crossing and it’s amazing. Most of the time a bike strip runs next to the crossing and they also have right of way. Is it perfect? No. Is it exportable for every country? Yeah. Coming from the car-first country I used to live in it makes walking in a city so much better.
I do wish europe would ban F150s and the like though. They’re dangerous to every road user.
posted by The River Ivel at 7:30 AM on July 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I do wish europe would ban F150s and the like though. They’re dangerous to every road user.
posted by The River Ivel at 7:30 AM on July 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
pedestrians mis-perceive roundabouts as more dangerous when they're used to stoplights, and need to learn to cross roundabouts.
I know we can't let perfect be the enemy of the good, but let me just have a pie in the sky moment here: If a pedestrian is perceiving something as dangerous, it's dangerous. If an untrained person can't feel safe crossing the road, it's not safe.
posted by aniola at 10:10 AM on July 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
I know we can't let perfect be the enemy of the good, but let me just have a pie in the sky moment here: If a pedestrian is perceiving something as dangerous, it's dangerous. If an untrained person can't feel safe crossing the road, it's not safe.
posted by aniola at 10:10 AM on July 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
The clamour from drivers was deafening, but a year later it's so much safer to walk around, and that's in generally good walkable infrastructure. 30% less crosswalk casualties nationwide.
Just want to add to how nice this change has been as someone in Poland every couple of months or so. In previous years, not even a zebra crossing offered much help. If there was traffic, one would wait for the good will of a driver to stop. Most sped through. As a pedestrian, streets felt unfriendly, unwelcoming. Everything was fine as long as you stayed out of the way and on the sidewalk. Now, cars stop. Drivers wave you on. You feel safe; you don't feel like you need to rush. It's nice!
I did not know it was due to a change in the law. I thought I was imagining things.
posted by UN at 11:07 AM on July 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Just want to add to how nice this change has been as someone in Poland every couple of months or so. In previous years, not even a zebra crossing offered much help. If there was traffic, one would wait for the good will of a driver to stop. Most sped through. As a pedestrian, streets felt unfriendly, unwelcoming. Everything was fine as long as you stayed out of the way and on the sidewalk. Now, cars stop. Drivers wave you on. You feel safe; you don't feel like you need to rush. It's nice!
I did not know it was due to a change in the law. I thought I was imagining things.
posted by UN at 11:07 AM on July 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Funny enough in most states in the US a pedestrian has the right of way at any crosswalk, including the implied crosswalk at intersections. Do drivers give a shit? Not really. I found most, though by no means all, people would pay attention to the blinking warning lights wherever they existed, but otherwise very few people stop when legally required.
posted by wierdo at 12:03 PM on July 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 12:03 PM on July 30, 2022 [7 favorites]
Not Just Bikes had a video about how you don't need to press the beg button in the Netherlands, not because it is a do-nothing placebo, but because there are usually multiple bicycle detection loops to turn the light green before you reach the intersection.
Meanwhile, elsewhere in Amsterdam, there are occasionally beg buttons over 2m above the ground, since horses both don't trigger the detector loops and also need a bit more time to cross the road.
posted by autopilot at 12:07 PM on July 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, elsewhere in Amsterdam, there are occasionally beg buttons over 2m above the ground, since horses both don't trigger the detector loops and also need a bit more time to cross the road.
posted by autopilot at 12:07 PM on July 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
There is one more aspect that I'd like to add to this discussion.
I'm not sure that it's productive just to point fingers at car drivers in the US and Canada for their hostility toward non-car road users. I think our frustration is more aptly pointed toward car manufacturers and oil and gas industries, who for decades have promoted the virtues and dominance of cars. Pointing fingers at car drivers who have, for generations, grown up with a sense of entitlement and have never known anything else would be like blaming hardcore Fox News watchers for their brainwashing while absolving or overlooking Rupert Murdoch.
Examples:
- Jaywalking was a crime basically invented by the auto industry in the 1920s/1930s to promote the idea that cars deserve priority in the streets. (Interestingly, last year, California governor Gavin Newsom vetoed a bill that would decriminalize jaywalking.)
- The billionaire Koch Brothers, whose fortunes come from oil and gas, have lobbied against the expansion of public transit and have even staked grassroots-like campaigns to sway public opinion AGAINST public transit and walkability
- Even though bicyclists have VERY good reasons for not stopping at stop signs, instead treating them as yield signs, and even though several states have already legalized this practice, known as the "Idaho Stop," legislation in many states has seen a lot of pushback from ignorant non-cyclists.
- Electric cars have been sold as a climate change solution, but they're really just a way to replace one convenience with another while lining the pockets of auto manufacturers. Electric cars are MUCH heavier, leading to even more wear on our already-crumbling roads. They still take up the same amount of space as gas-powered cars, which holds back our cities' walkability. They're still extremely resource-intensive to build. But they've been sold to us as a solution, which makes us feel like our cars couldn't possibly be the problem.
Here's what I see as good news:
Slowly but surely, the realization that cars have been afforded WAY too much privilege in our streets, and the huge drawbacks of car dependency, are entering the public consciousness. So many cities around the country have been improving their bike infrastructure and trying to take back our streets, creating protected bike lanes and bike trails.
I have found that public transit has been slower to follow, but as public voices strengthen in unity, I think they will overwhelm the sounds coming from the likes of the Koch Brothers.
I envision that, in maybe 20-30 years, car drivers will be more used to sharing the road with bicyclists and pedestrians, and so will be significantly more careful and conscious. They will be physically separated from bikes on a lot of roads. And where they are forced to share, they may stop moaning at insignificant delays from being "stuck" behind bicyclists. I truly believe that people will stop defending cars so vehemently once they get used to, and start enjoying the benefits of, healthier, more livable, more walkable, and more equitable communities.
posted by aquamvidam at 12:23 PM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure that it's productive just to point fingers at car drivers in the US and Canada for their hostility toward non-car road users. I think our frustration is more aptly pointed toward car manufacturers and oil and gas industries, who for decades have promoted the virtues and dominance of cars. Pointing fingers at car drivers who have, for generations, grown up with a sense of entitlement and have never known anything else would be like blaming hardcore Fox News watchers for their brainwashing while absolving or overlooking Rupert Murdoch.
Examples:
- Jaywalking was a crime basically invented by the auto industry in the 1920s/1930s to promote the idea that cars deserve priority in the streets. (Interestingly, last year, California governor Gavin Newsom vetoed a bill that would decriminalize jaywalking.)
- The billionaire Koch Brothers, whose fortunes come from oil and gas, have lobbied against the expansion of public transit and have even staked grassroots-like campaigns to sway public opinion AGAINST public transit and walkability
- Even though bicyclists have VERY good reasons for not stopping at stop signs, instead treating them as yield signs, and even though several states have already legalized this practice, known as the "Idaho Stop," legislation in many states has seen a lot of pushback from ignorant non-cyclists.
- Electric cars have been sold as a climate change solution, but they're really just a way to replace one convenience with another while lining the pockets of auto manufacturers. Electric cars are MUCH heavier, leading to even more wear on our already-crumbling roads. They still take up the same amount of space as gas-powered cars, which holds back our cities' walkability. They're still extremely resource-intensive to build. But they've been sold to us as a solution, which makes us feel like our cars couldn't possibly be the problem.
Here's what I see as good news:
Slowly but surely, the realization that cars have been afforded WAY too much privilege in our streets, and the huge drawbacks of car dependency, are entering the public consciousness. So many cities around the country have been improving their bike infrastructure and trying to take back our streets, creating protected bike lanes and bike trails.
I have found that public transit has been slower to follow, but as public voices strengthen in unity, I think they will overwhelm the sounds coming from the likes of the Koch Brothers.
I envision that, in maybe 20-30 years, car drivers will be more used to sharing the road with bicyclists and pedestrians, and so will be significantly more careful and conscious. They will be physically separated from bikes on a lot of roads. And where they are forced to share, they may stop moaning at insignificant delays from being "stuck" behind bicyclists. I truly believe that people will stop defending cars so vehemently once they get used to, and start enjoying the benefits of, healthier, more livable, more walkable, and more equitable communities.
posted by aquamvidam at 12:23 PM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Kat Allison: A few years back I switched from my beloved old 2004 Honda Civic to a 2014 Chevy Volt, and though the difference in the width of the front pillar may look negligible in those photos, it makes an astonishing difference in my field of vision, especially in parking lots, or if I'm at an intersection and someone is in the crosswalk to my left. I try to be super-vigilant and keep my whole upper body on a swivel, but I've been horrifyingly close to hitting a few pedestrians. Looking at other cars on the road, it seems like this particular styling trend is well-nigh universal.
Good eye! The change in pillar design between your 2004 vehicle and your 2014 vehicle that you noticed on other cars was not a trend for style-sake, it was due to a change in US automobile safety standards in 2009. The change, in which the strength a roof had to withstand was doubled from 1.5 times the weight of the vehicle to 3 times the weight, went into effect in 2012.
posted by RichardP at 12:42 PM on July 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
Good eye! The change in pillar design between your 2004 vehicle and your 2014 vehicle that you noticed on other cars was not a trend for style-sake, it was due to a change in US automobile safety standards in 2009. The change, in which the strength a roof had to withstand was doubled from 1.5 times the weight of the vehicle to 3 times the weight, went into effect in 2012.
posted by RichardP at 12:42 PM on July 30, 2022 [9 favorites]
I'm not sure that it's productive just to point fingers at car drivers in the US and Canada for their hostility toward non-car road users
I have spent most of the past two decades walking and bicycling in some of the most bike-friendly parts of the US. In addition to other people blithely (casually, obliviously) risking my life pretty much any time I'm out riding my bike any sort of useful distance, there's things like this:
- People pull alongside me while I'm biking to yell at me more times than I can count (people also pull alongside me to praise me for biking, which is just as dangerous)
- I have been followed, late at night, by a group of men in a car who made it clear that this was harassment
- I have had a water balloon thrown at my head by a driver. It hit hard. I thought I was bleeding until I figured it out.
- I have been cut off by a carful of drunk men who, one by one, got out of the car to yell at me, and would not let me pass. I had to wait for a chance to pull into heavy car traffic.
- I have had oncoming cars speed up when they saw me.
These stories are abbreviated and this list is incomplete. Please note that in none of these instances did I do anything to provoke or encourage any of the following. Typically (but not always) these stories are stories of young white men. White being the most universal factor. Growing up with a sense of entitlement may explain but does not excuse a sense of entitlement.
posted by aniola at 3:32 PM on July 30, 2022 [15 favorites]
I have spent most of the past two decades walking and bicycling in some of the most bike-friendly parts of the US. In addition to other people blithely (casually, obliviously) risking my life pretty much any time I'm out riding my bike any sort of useful distance, there's things like this:
- People pull alongside me while I'm biking to yell at me more times than I can count (people also pull alongside me to praise me for biking, which is just as dangerous)
- I have been followed, late at night, by a group of men in a car who made it clear that this was harassment
- I have had a water balloon thrown at my head by a driver. It hit hard. I thought I was bleeding until I figured it out.
- I have been cut off by a carful of drunk men who, one by one, got out of the car to yell at me, and would not let me pass. I had to wait for a chance to pull into heavy car traffic.
- I have had oncoming cars speed up when they saw me.
These stories are abbreviated and this list is incomplete. Please note that in none of these instances did I do anything to provoke or encourage any of the following. Typically (but not always) these stories are stories of young white men. White being the most universal factor. Growing up with a sense of entitlement may explain but does not excuse a sense of entitlement.
posted by aniola at 3:32 PM on July 30, 2022 [15 favorites]
Thank you aniola. Sorry - I did not mean to minimize the importance and significance of the interactions that you described. They are intimidating, terrifying, and unacceptable.
I also did not mean to absolve people of their guilt in this kind of bad and criminal behavior. They absolutely should be held responsible for their actions.
What I meant was: 1) I can understand how we got to this point, and 2) To solve the problem of hostile behavior toward bicyclists and pedestrians, we cannot stop at pointing out these kinds of behaviors; in addition, we have to look beyond them, see what's fueling them, and then correct or overpower them.
I totally did not mean to minimize the types of incidents you described. They are absolutely wrong in every way, and the people who committed them deserve to be held responsible.
posted by aquamvidam at 5:14 PM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
I also did not mean to absolve people of their guilt in this kind of bad and criminal behavior. They absolutely should be held responsible for their actions.
What I meant was: 1) I can understand how we got to this point, and 2) To solve the problem of hostile behavior toward bicyclists and pedestrians, we cannot stop at pointing out these kinds of behaviors; in addition, we have to look beyond them, see what's fueling them, and then correct or overpower them.
I totally did not mean to minimize the types of incidents you described. They are absolutely wrong in every way, and the people who committed them deserve to be held responsible.
posted by aquamvidam at 5:14 PM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Agree with the rest of your comment, btw. May we all one day soon see roads that are truly shared and where everyone belongs.
posted by aniola at 5:24 PM on July 30, 2022
posted by aniola at 5:24 PM on July 30, 2022
A happy moment, but first, some context:
People in my region use "be safe!" or some variation on that as a departing comment.
I've bit my tongue and I've bit my tongue, because I know they mean well, and what am I supposed to say? "I'm being safe, you be safe!" or maybe "Please don't kill me?" They're not ready to look closer at what they're saying, and I know I'm supposed to recognize the intent of what people say, and the intent is to say a departing "sweet nothing" so I leave it alone. This has gone on for many years.
So I was parked outside a grocery store and someone asked me the same FAQs everyone asks about my bike and I gave the same answers I always do.
Then it was time for me to leave. As I was riding off, that person said: "I hope they respect you on the road out there!"
I couldn't tell that person how I felt about what they said because I was gone. But I can tell y'all.
It meant so much to me. To not have to bite my tongue. Can a person feel understood? Is feeling understood a feeling? I felt understood. So now I try to say it to all people who use slow traffic options such as biking and walking.
I hope the drivers respect you on the road out there.
posted by aniola at 5:51 PM on July 30, 2022 [13 favorites]
People in my region use "be safe!" or some variation on that as a departing comment.
I've bit my tongue and I've bit my tongue, because I know they mean well, and what am I supposed to say? "I'm being safe, you be safe!" or maybe "Please don't kill me?" They're not ready to look closer at what they're saying, and I know I'm supposed to recognize the intent of what people say, and the intent is to say a departing "sweet nothing" so I leave it alone. This has gone on for many years.
So I was parked outside a grocery store and someone asked me the same FAQs everyone asks about my bike and I gave the same answers I always do.
Then it was time for me to leave. As I was riding off, that person said: "I hope they respect you on the road out there!"
I couldn't tell that person how I felt about what they said because I was gone. But I can tell y'all.
It meant so much to me. To not have to bite my tongue. Can a person feel understood? Is feeling understood a feeling? I felt understood. So now I try to say it to all people who use slow traffic options such as biking and walking.
I hope the drivers respect you on the road out there.
posted by aniola at 5:51 PM on July 30, 2022 [13 favorites]
I recently "caused" an accident between two cars behind me by stopping for a pedestrian in a roundabout. I believe he had been waiting for some time before I stopped for him. From the sound, Car #3 entered the intersection at full speed while I was stopped, with Car #2 stopped behind me.
Besides the terrifyingly enormous vehicles, another thing I struggle with as a pedestrian is eye contact. When people are farther up in the air, plus the number of tinted windows, it is harder to make eye contact to say "please don't kill me while I scurry out of your way through this intersection." I have on occasion made a driver furious by not seeing them waving me through the intersection - because the design of THEIR VEHICLE made it impossible for me to see in!
I drive in a major metropolitan area regularly and the posted speed limit is 30. I do not feel comfortable going much over 20 (if that) because cars can park nearly to the start of the intersection - in this same place is a crosswalk. If someone is trying to cross, I will not see them until we are right on top of each other due to the parked car blocking my view. For this reason I slow down at intersections where I have no stop sign, and it feels inevitable that someone will rear end me for this unexpected behavior of anticipating pedestrians in their dedicated area.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:14 PM on July 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
Besides the terrifyingly enormous vehicles, another thing I struggle with as a pedestrian is eye contact. When people are farther up in the air, plus the number of tinted windows, it is harder to make eye contact to say "please don't kill me while I scurry out of your way through this intersection." I have on occasion made a driver furious by not seeing them waving me through the intersection - because the design of THEIR VEHICLE made it impossible for me to see in!
I drive in a major metropolitan area regularly and the posted speed limit is 30. I do not feel comfortable going much over 20 (if that) because cars can park nearly to the start of the intersection - in this same place is a crosswalk. If someone is trying to cross, I will not see them until we are right on top of each other due to the parked car blocking my view. For this reason I slow down at intersections where I have no stop sign, and it feels inevitable that someone will rear end me for this unexpected behavior of anticipating pedestrians in their dedicated area.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:14 PM on July 30, 2022 [4 favorites]
I live in Baltimore right now, and I just want to say to all the people who stop for pedestrians in the walk in front of my apartment building:
You are good people. You are conscious of others. I appreciate that. You are following the law. In a sane world, you should keep doing what you are doing.
Unfortunately, we do not live in a sane world. You run the risk of someone rear ending you or even assaulting you. Moreover, there are people who would be perfectly happy to swerve around you at high speeds and run over the person you are letting cross. I've seen it almost happen.
On an unrelated note. The inflation reduction act is a good bill. I hope it passes. Unfortunately, in the short term, it may have the unanticipated consequence of further increasing the size and weight of vehicles on US roads.
Why is that? The bill caps the MSRP for trucks and SUVs at 80000 dollars but imposes a lower MSRP of 55000 for sedans, wagons, and hatches. It also includes battery sourcing provisions and final assembly provisions that limit the tax credits to some Teslas and vehicles from Ford and GM. Since Ford and GM only manufacture SUVs and trucks with the exception of the Bolt (which is a great car), a lot of people looking to switch to electric cars in the next few years are going to be buying SUVs or pickup trucks.
posted by eagles123 at 9:43 PM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
You are good people. You are conscious of others. I appreciate that. You are following the law. In a sane world, you should keep doing what you are doing.
Unfortunately, we do not live in a sane world. You run the risk of someone rear ending you or even assaulting you. Moreover, there are people who would be perfectly happy to swerve around you at high speeds and run over the person you are letting cross. I've seen it almost happen.
On an unrelated note. The inflation reduction act is a good bill. I hope it passes. Unfortunately, in the short term, it may have the unanticipated consequence of further increasing the size and weight of vehicles on US roads.
Why is that? The bill caps the MSRP for trucks and SUVs at 80000 dollars but imposes a lower MSRP of 55000 for sedans, wagons, and hatches. It also includes battery sourcing provisions and final assembly provisions that limit the tax credits to some Teslas and vehicles from Ford and GM. Since Ford and GM only manufacture SUVs and trucks with the exception of the Bolt (which is a great car), a lot of people looking to switch to electric cars in the next few years are going to be buying SUVs or pickup trucks.
posted by eagles123 at 9:43 PM on July 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
If a pedestrian is perceiving something as dangerous, it's dangerous. If an untrained person can't feel safe crossing the road, it's not safe.
I completely disagree. The job of a road planner is to make the road objectively safer. Reduced pedestrian and auto fatalities at roundabouts speak for themselves. So people are managing, overall.
I don’t mind being an evangelist for something well studied that saves lives.
posted by michaelh at 4:46 AM on July 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
I completely disagree. The job of a road planner is to make the road objectively safer. Reduced pedestrian and auto fatalities at roundabouts speak for themselves. So people are managing, overall.
I don’t mind being an evangelist for something well studied that saves lives.
posted by michaelh at 4:46 AM on July 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
Also, in case this is the fear, roundabouts don’t take away energy from movements to slow speed limits and restrict cars in urban centers, the way that those dangerous little pedestrian crosswalk signs placed on straight, wide roads do.
posted by michaelh at 5:05 AM on July 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 5:05 AM on July 31, 2022 [2 favorites]
For sure, some of the anger and frustration from pedestrians and cyclists should be directed toward the oil & gas industry and at automakers for all the reasons already pointed out by others. But I still think a fair bit can and ought to be directed at bad drivers, because these problems are the drivers' fault. Plenty of people manage to get in their cars every day, drive safely, enter roundabouts at properly safe speeds, stop for pedestrians, give cyclists plenty of room and patience, and generally not be raging assholes, every single day. Those that can't manage to do this very simple thing have earned every bit of scorn directed at them, IMO.
posted by xedrik at 7:07 AM on July 31, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by xedrik at 7:07 AM on July 31, 2022 [4 favorites]
You need both. If it isn't objectively safer AND subjectively safe, it isn't safe.
Not about roundabouts specifically (which I think is a matter of design whether they're better than what came before) but about road planning generally:
Objectively safer is a really low bar.
posted by aniola at 9:40 AM on July 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Not about roundabouts specifically (which I think is a matter of design whether they're better than what came before) but about road planning generally:
Objectively safer is a really low bar.
posted by aniola at 9:40 AM on July 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also, in case this is the fear, roundabouts don’t take away energy from movements to slow speed limits and restrict cars in urban centers, the way that those dangerous little pedestrian crosswalk signs placed on straight, wide roads do.
I absolutely want restrictions on the energy and movements of cars in urban centers! I would like my energy as a pedestrian unrestricted. I would like to take the most direct path. To not have to make a detour that doubles or triples the distance I have to travel so a driver can get to work 3 seconds faster. I would like to be and to feel safe.
It is past time to throw out "Level of Service" for cars in planning. It's killing people and destroying our planet.
posted by aniola at 9:49 AM on July 31, 2022 [6 favorites]
I absolutely want restrictions on the energy and movements of cars in urban centers! I would like my energy as a pedestrian unrestricted. I would like to take the most direct path. To not have to make a detour that doubles or triples the distance I have to travel so a driver can get to work 3 seconds faster. I would like to be and to feel safe.
It is past time to throw out "Level of Service" for cars in planning. It's killing people and destroying our planet.
posted by aniola at 9:49 AM on July 31, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's also worth noting that some of the drive for larger and larger cars in the US is that over a certain size you're subject to less strict fuel efficiency standards. These nightmares are multi-functional: they kill they planet while they kill you.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:38 AM on July 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by vibratory manner of working at 11:38 AM on July 31, 2022 [3 favorites]
Portland, OR is the scariest place that I’ve ever been a driver. Pedestrians step off the curb without looking, drivers constantly blow through stop signs. When, as a pedestrian, I cross an intersection I always look all four ways. I fear hitting a pedestrian and like living where I don’t need a car.
posted by bendy at 8:31 PM on July 31, 2022
posted by bendy at 8:31 PM on July 31, 2022
And ... this just happened in my area: she was walking across the street with her bike about 7:30 PM (so still fairly light out here), on her way to a nearby store, when the driver of a truck blew through a stop sign at the intersection and turned right and struck her. It was a hit and run but they did find the guy; seems like alcohol was involved. You take your life in your hands as a pedestrian in my area, whether there are traffic lights and stop signs or not. Striped crossing areas without a traffic light might as well not be there. Her poor family now has a gofundme to send her body back to her home country of Guatemala.
posted by gudrun at 11:28 AM on August 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by gudrun at 11:28 AM on August 2, 2022 [1 favorite]
I've told the ambulance story before, haven't I? The time I broke my hip rollerblading, I was in the back of an ambulance headed through town to the hospital on the outskirts. I was in a lot of pain and pretty in and out of it, but at one point I head voices from the cab, both my sister and the driver yelling, "Oh. my god, he's not going to stop!" And then everything went all wonky. I was mostly strapped down, but my injured hip was now at a much more interesting angle. We'd been broadsided by an SUV failing to yield. The ambulance company had to send out two new ambulances: one for me and one for the driver, who ended up with her arm broken in two places. My sister and the EMT were fine. I was in a post-op haze for a week and then on the ortho rehab ward for a couple more, but I found out later the police didn't issue the SUV driver a ticket because he was from out of town and "unfamiliar with traffic patterns." Everybody I asked said if the police didn't find fault with him I didn't have a prayer of suing (especially since I hadn't been X-rayed yet and I couldn't prove the crash made my injuries worse).
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:21 PM on August 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:21 PM on August 2, 2022 [5 favorites]
You need both. If it isn't objectively safer AND subjectively safe, it isn't safe.
Not about roundabouts specifically (which I think is a matter of design whether they're better than what came before) but about road planning generally:
Objectively safer is a really low bar.
posted by aniola 3 days ago [+] [!]
Are people using words differently? Objectively safer means things like collisions or fatalities are less in roundabouts as opposed to the regular intersections they replaced. Subjectively safer means that you feel safer when you're using the roundabout. The only one that matters is objectively safer. If there are less collisions or fatalities then this was a worthwhile change. Feeling safer might be a nice to have, although I think that leads to complacency and inattentiveness which is dangerous, but if you feel unsafe using the roundabout but are more likely to come out of it unscathed then it's doing its job.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:22 PM on August 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
Not about roundabouts specifically (which I think is a matter of design whether they're better than what came before) but about road planning generally:
Objectively safer is a really low bar.
posted by aniola 3 days ago [+] [!]
Are people using words differently? Objectively safer means things like collisions or fatalities are less in roundabouts as opposed to the regular intersections they replaced. Subjectively safer means that you feel safer when you're using the roundabout. The only one that matters is objectively safer. If there are less collisions or fatalities then this was a worthwhile change. Feeling safer might be a nice to have, although I think that leads to complacency and inattentiveness which is dangerous, but if you feel unsafe using the roundabout but are more likely to come out of it unscathed then it's doing its job.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:22 PM on August 3, 2022 [4 favorites]
the driver of a truck blew through a stop sign at the intersection and turned right and struck her.
Tragically, this is so common it has a name. It's called a right hook.
posted by aniola at 8:00 PM on August 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Tragically, this is so common it has a name. It's called a right hook.
posted by aniola at 8:00 PM on August 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
- objectively safe but not subjectively safe = not enough. You somehow have managed to design a place that looks dangerous but isn't.
- subjectively safe but not objectively safe = not enough. You might die.
- objectively safe AND subjectively safe = NOW we're getting somewhere!
posted by aniola at 8:05 PM on August 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
- subjectively safe but not objectively safe = not enough. You might die.
- objectively safe AND subjectively safe = NOW we're getting somewhere!
posted by aniola at 8:05 PM on August 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
But I still think a fair bit can and ought to be directed at bad drivers, because these problems are the drivers' fault.Yes, and... Certainly, individual driver behavior can be more or less safe. We see this reflected to some extent in insurance premiums. However, we can point to a road design feature and say "statistically, that feature is more likely to be the site of a fatal collision", and we can point to a driver's behavior and say "that behavior increases the chance of a fatal collision", and that's all great, and these things stack.
But we also need to be looking at an automobile commercial and say "that automobile commercial increases the chance that a driver is going to engage in unsafe behavior", or "that automobile commercial increases the chance that people are going to complain about speed limits" or "that movie is going to normalize risk".
I've been recently engaging in deliberate malicious compliance: Driving the speed limit. Stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks. Waiting until there's a safe 3' buffer in which I can pass cyclists. That sort of obeying "the rules" that most drivers think is being an asshole.
Socially, this is incredibly difficult. I get yelled at. Honked at. I have people engage in maneuvers that I think are unsafe to pass me (left-side double-yellow line, right side on the shoulder, tailgating, etc). People use their automobiles to make aggressive gestures at my automobile.
With this much social pressure to behave unsafely, how much can we fault the individual driver? It doesn't matter if we say "all of those people are assholes", the fact is: that's the majority of drivers. Hell, sometimes I look down at my speedometer, or think about a maneuver I just made, and realize that I've become the asshole.
This is group behavior, spurred on by all sorts of social and advertising driven pressures, exacerbated by designs which accommodate those pressures.
Also, I thought Jessie Singer's book was going to be just preaching to the choir, but it was eye-opening and I highly recommend it to everybody.
posted by straw at 9:41 AM on August 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
deliberate malicious compliance
If your profile is correct, we live in the same region right now. Thank you. The life you save may be my own. The reaction you're experiencing from other drivers is where any maliciousness starts (but it's usually self-centeredness). I encourage you to instead think of these as acts of extremely basic decency.
>With this much social pressure to behave unsafely
> sometimes I look down at my speedometer, or think about a maneuver I just made, and realize that I've become the asshole.
These are just a couple of the reasons why I don't drive.
posted by aniola at 12:44 PM on August 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
If your profile is correct, we live in the same region right now. Thank you. The life you save may be my own. The reaction you're experiencing from other drivers is where any maliciousness starts (but it's usually self-centeredness). I encourage you to instead think of these as acts of extremely basic decency.
>With this much social pressure to behave unsafely
> sometimes I look down at my speedometer, or think about a maneuver I just made, and realize that I've become the asshole.
These are just a couple of the reasons why I don't drive.
posted by aniola at 12:44 PM on August 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
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posted by NoxAeternum at 8:58 AM on July 29, 2022 [21 favorites]