Jetpack Mystery Near LAX
September 6, 2020 2:52 PM Subscribe
Airline Pilots Landing At LAX Report "A Guy In Jetpack" Flying Alongside Them [The WarZone]
FBI Narrows Down Sighting Location of Man Flying in Jet Pack Near LAX [NBC TV]
Mystery jetpack man flying by commercial pilots at LAX may have been a mannequin on a drone [FOX TV]
[It's not Jetman]
Jetpacks, previously
FBI Narrows Down Sighting Location of Man Flying in Jet Pack Near LAX [NBC TV]
Mystery jetpack man flying by commercial pilots at LAX may have been a mannequin on a drone [FOX TV]
[It's not Jetman]
Jetpacks, previously
For all of 2020's faults I kinda like living in a time that this could have, however unlikely, been what the pilots said. There are several jetpack/hoverboard projects out there, and lashing something together out of model aircraft turbines and an ardupilot could have been done by some brave, off-the-radar hobbyist.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:28 PM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:28 PM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I mean we've already had the existence of UFOs doubly confirmed by the government this year....
What's one jetpack?
posted by Gadarene at 4:39 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
What's one jetpack?
posted by Gadarene at 4:39 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Jetpacks are cool and with tech making low weight controls it would be a shame if some yahoos ruined it by forcing the FAA to shut down experiments due to irresponsible actors. It would be just incredibly fun, but still physics, stability requires either a lot of speed or a huge lot of power (helicopters burn the cost of a house per mission). Speed is fine until you want to stop, note many trials over water. Why can't we get a battery with the power of a hundred gallons of gas, oh right chemistry and physics. Reality sucks ;-}
posted by sammyo at 5:01 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 5:01 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I mean we've already had the existence of UFOs doubly confirmed by the government this year....
What's one jetpack?
If you want to get technical, the fact they we don't know exactly what this thing was actually qualifies it as a UFO.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:01 PM on September 6, 2020 [16 favorites]
What's one jetpack?
If you want to get technical, the fact they we don't know exactly what this thing was actually qualifies it as a UFO.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:01 PM on September 6, 2020 [16 favorites]
> Somewhere the spirit of Larry Walters stirs restlessly.
Somewhat tangentially: Just a couple days ago David Blaine set an altitude record for solo helium balloon flight.
posted by ardgedee at 5:18 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Somewhat tangentially: Just a couple days ago David Blaine set an altitude record for solo helium balloon flight.
posted by ardgedee at 5:18 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
David Blaine set an altitude record for solo helium balloon flight.
It's implied that he held on with no other suspension system (though I'm skeptical) and I've seen a video clip that purports to be him pulling a parachute down from among the balloons and putting it on before letting go. I'm doubly skeptical because TFA says he flew to 24,900 feet (higher than his goal altitude of 18,000), and most people who get that high have oxygen, or aren't relying solely on their grip strength to avoid a 4 mile plunge to their deaths. Maybe he had oxygen, but no reserve chute? Either way, it's an impressive feat, but I think the showmanship detracts from the effort.
posted by spacewrench at 6:15 PM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
It's implied that he held on with no other suspension system (though I'm skeptical) and I've seen a video clip that purports to be him pulling a parachute down from among the balloons and putting it on before letting go. I'm doubly skeptical because TFA says he flew to 24,900 feet (higher than his goal altitude of 18,000), and most people who get that high have oxygen, or aren't relying solely on their grip strength to avoid a 4 mile plunge to their deaths. Maybe he had oxygen, but no reserve chute? Either way, it's an impressive feat, but I think the showmanship detracts from the effort.
posted by spacewrench at 6:15 PM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
David Blaine: the showmanship detracts from the effort
posted by glonous keming at 6:39 PM on September 6, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 6:39 PM on September 6, 2020 [20 favorites]
It's implied that he held on with no other suspension system (though I'm skeptical) and I've seen a video clip that purports to be him pulling a parachute down from among the balloons and putting it on before letting go.
That's what is implied and what the promo shots appear to show. He's strapped in and this is not really hidden, in the full "Ascension" video multiple times he lets go and uses both hands to adjust a camera.
In any case, I would not be surprised if this was not a YouTube personality stunt from the Mr. Beast / Paul Logan set. We should just give them nickname The Tube Pack or something at this point. I always assumed that if they were really making the money they are making, then some studio or production company would have teamed up with them at this point to assist in planning and also keep them from doing something stupid like this.
I really can't imagine a jetpack manufacturer doing this, but I could be wrong. I could only find a few and all were advertising to government or military applications along with civilian use. That and the high price tag leads me to believe that someone acquired a jetpack legitimately then leased it out to an unlicensed production of some sort. This isn't a kid going on a joyride in a Cessna, there's not that many jetpacks out there. It wouldn't take a lot of accounting to figure out where all the jetpacks in the LA area were at this time and through process of elimination at least narrow it down to a couple of people.
posted by geoff. at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
That's what is implied and what the promo shots appear to show. He's strapped in and this is not really hidden, in the full "Ascension" video multiple times he lets go and uses both hands to adjust a camera.
In any case, I would not be surprised if this was not a YouTube personality stunt from the Mr. Beast / Paul Logan set. We should just give them nickname The Tube Pack or something at this point. I always assumed that if they were really making the money they are making, then some studio or production company would have teamed up with them at this point to assist in planning and also keep them from doing something stupid like this.
I really can't imagine a jetpack manufacturer doing this, but I could be wrong. I could only find a few and all were advertising to government or military applications along with civilian use. That and the high price tag leads me to believe that someone acquired a jetpack legitimately then leased it out to an unlicensed production of some sort. This isn't a kid going on a joyride in a Cessna, there's not that many jetpacks out there. It wouldn't take a lot of accounting to figure out where all the jetpacks in the LA area were at this time and through process of elimination at least narrow it down to a couple of people.
posted by geoff. at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Random people in the air is more common than you might think. I was on my way home last month and nearly smeared someone using a motorized parachute up at 6000 feet. I was on an airway receiving separation services from ATC. They were just as surprised as I was when I reported what had happened.
Anyway, if you feel like fooling around with stuff like this, at least carry a transponder. It’s especially hard to clean off the windscreen after colliding with something at 160 mph.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2020 [29 favorites]
Anyway, if you feel like fooling around with stuff like this, at least carry a transponder. It’s especially hard to clean off the windscreen after colliding with something at 160 mph.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:45 PM on September 6, 2020 [29 favorites]
We were promised jetpacks. I guess we got them, but they didn't warn us about the rest of the year.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:59 PM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 6:59 PM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Anyway, if you feel like fooling around with stuff like this, at least carry a transponder.
IIRC the UK tried to mandate ADS-B for all aircraft a couple of years ago. Turned out there was nothing remotely close to small and light enough to use on a PG on the market.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:17 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
IIRC the UK tried to mandate ADS-B for all aircraft a couple of years ago. Turned out there was nothing remotely close to small and light enough to use on a PG on the market.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:17 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Turned out there was nothing remotely close to small and light enough to use on a PG on the market.
My last company developed the Universal Access Tranceiver (UAT) and packaged it in a size compatible with small UAVs. There are ADS-B solutions on the market right now that fit in a standard wing nav light socket. I know the UK didn’t adopt the 978 MHz UAT standard, but even for the 1090 MHz standard there are small form factor options.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:38 PM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
My last company developed the Universal Access Tranceiver (UAT) and packaged it in a size compatible with small UAVs. There are ADS-B solutions on the market right now that fit in a standard wing nav light socket. I know the UK didn’t adopt the 978 MHz UAT standard, but even for the 1090 MHz standard there are small form factor options.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:38 PM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm really surprised nobody caught this on their phone.
posted by mecran01 at 7:54 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mecran01 at 7:54 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
On the video Blane clearly uses an oxygen mask, still wacky crazy. If SpaceX keep cutting prices we should see a skydive from orbit in a few years.
posted by sammyo at 8:10 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 8:10 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
David Blaine's Ascension was fun, educational, and a great stunt. He was creating the visual impression of just grabbing a bunch of balloons and flying off, but while showing the complete behind the scenes and explaining all the preparation and tech that went into it. He was connected with a harness, had to retrieve the parachute from above and put it on, and he had an oxygen mask at higher altitudes.
But anyway, jetpacks. It has to be a pretty good one to get up to 3000 feet, I think? A lot of the drone restrictions with visible tail numbers, restricted flight areas, and licensing are surely going to be forced on jetpacks if/when they become more common.
posted by allegedly at 8:14 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
But anyway, jetpacks. It has to be a pretty good one to get up to 3000 feet, I think? A lot of the drone restrictions with visible tail numbers, restricted flight areas, and licensing are surely going to be forced on jetpacks if/when they become more common.
posted by allegedly at 8:14 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
> What's one jetpack?
$20, same as in the duty-free shop.
posted by genpfault at 8:40 PM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
$20, same as in the duty-free shop.
posted by genpfault at 8:40 PM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Skeptics sneer, since everyone has a cell-phone, with a dinty little sweat smeared wide-angle lens built into it, where's the footage of UFOs? Skeptics following up: the wave of YouTube vids totallly don't count, for reasons and such! CGI! LucasFilm!
Lo! High Strangeness refuses to abate regardless. This is far from the first commercial report of rogue jetpackmen. Aliens? Mad scientists? Hidden government agencies? Hallucinating pilots? It's all sublimely weird and on the table. Occam's razor is less of a guiding principal than an amusing professional wrestling match.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:34 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Lo! High Strangeness refuses to abate regardless. This is far from the first commercial report of rogue jetpackmen. Aliens? Mad scientists? Hidden government agencies? Hallucinating pilots? It's all sublimely weird and on the table. Occam's razor is less of a guiding principal than an amusing professional wrestling match.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:34 PM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
See also the trope, "A Quadcopter did it."
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:40 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:40 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
David Blaine set an altitude record for solo helium balloon flight.
Isn't 8,960 meters significantly less than 31 km?
posted by autopilot at 1:29 AM on September 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
Isn't 8,960 meters significantly less than 31 km?
posted by autopilot at 1:29 AM on September 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
My last company developed the Universal Access Tranceiver (UAT) and packaged it in a size compatible with small UAVs.
I'd appreciate a link. You sent me looking, and I found this, which looks pretty neat, but at $4k costs more than an entire paraglider.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:12 AM on September 7, 2020
I'd appreciate a link. You sent me looking, and I found this, which looks pretty neat, but at $4k costs more than an entire paraglider.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:12 AM on September 7, 2020
Drone with a mannequin sounds likely to me. Some LA goofballs trying to get in the news. Hope no one gets hurt!
posted by SoberHighland at 5:31 AM on September 7, 2020
posted by SoberHighland at 5:31 AM on September 7, 2020
IIRC the UK tried to mandate ADS-B for all aircraft a couple of years ago.
As far as I'm aware they haven't tried to mandate ADS-B yet, but I don't fly any more and haven't been in the loop lately.
The CAA did try to mandate Mode S transponders on everything - it was around 2006 or so. It was a completely ridiculous proposal and we fought it very hard - fortunately successfully.
ADS-B would be less ridiculous, because the cost/weight/power requirements are lower. But I'd still expect a pretty hard fight if they try it.
The UK gliding community has already invested a lot in deploying FLARM, and would be pretty annoyed at being mandated to fit something that does the same job but less well.
posted by automatronic at 7:59 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
As far as I'm aware they haven't tried to mandate ADS-B yet, but I don't fly any more and haven't been in the loop lately.
The CAA did try to mandate Mode S transponders on everything - it was around 2006 or so. It was a completely ridiculous proposal and we fought it very hard - fortunately successfully.
ADS-B would be less ridiculous, because the cost/weight/power requirements are lower. But I'd still expect a pretty hard fight if they try it.
The UK gliding community has already invested a lot in deploying FLARM, and would be pretty annoyed at being mandated to fit something that does the same job but less well.
posted by automatronic at 7:59 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Drone with a mannequin sounds likely to me. Some LA goofballs trying to get in the news. Hope no one gets hurt!
Make the dummy out of helium balloons and it might even have some positive buoyancy to help the drone climb that high. This is what my money is on.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:07 AM on September 7, 2020
Make the dummy out of helium balloons and it might even have some positive buoyancy to help the drone climb that high. This is what my money is on.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:07 AM on September 7, 2020
we should see a skydive from orbit in a few years.
As with nearly everything anyone ever thinks of these days, the US government thought about it a long time ago. I'm on my phone so I'm having trouble finding a reference, but I'm pretty sure it was an air force project with a cutesy name along the lines of man high.
The idea was to make it possible to get back on the ground if the space vehicle failed with nothing more than what a person could feasibly handle by themselves. Just a tiny plastic heat shield, the suit they were already wearing, and a parachute to keep the stop at the end from being deadly.
This was back when they were still planning dyna-soar and the manned orbiting laboratory. Corona existed, but only had one film return capsule and limited ability to point off-track, so it was considered useful to have people in space pointing telescopes at things they thought were interesting and that could be told to take pictures of something without prior notice. Advancements in the corona satellites along with electronic imaging sensors on newer satellite designs (with lower resolution than film, but near instant gratification, which is why they kept flying film until KH-11 came online) quickly rendered such things unnecessary, so they never did try it out.
posted by wierdo at 9:27 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
As with nearly everything anyone ever thinks of these days, the US government thought about it a long time ago. I'm on my phone so I'm having trouble finding a reference, but I'm pretty sure it was an air force project with a cutesy name along the lines of man high.
The idea was to make it possible to get back on the ground if the space vehicle failed with nothing more than what a person could feasibly handle by themselves. Just a tiny plastic heat shield, the suit they were already wearing, and a parachute to keep the stop at the end from being deadly.
This was back when they were still planning dyna-soar and the manned orbiting laboratory. Corona existed, but only had one film return capsule and limited ability to point off-track, so it was considered useful to have people in space pointing telescopes at things they thought were interesting and that could be told to take pictures of something without prior notice. Advancements in the corona satellites along with electronic imaging sensors on newer satellite designs (with lower resolution than film, but near instant gratification, which is why they kept flying film until KH-11 came online) quickly rendered such things unnecessary, so they never did try it out.
posted by wierdo at 9:27 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
SpaceX could make a lot of extra cash letting people surf on the inside of the payload fairings as they come back down. Just need a good space suit, some protective gear, and a very casual attitude towards risk.
posted by allegedly at 9:37 AM on September 7, 2020
posted by allegedly at 9:37 AM on September 7, 2020
weirdo: You're thinking of MOOSE? I notice you wouldn't need a SpaceX rocket for that, it's light enough to make orbit on an Electron...
automatronic: Aha! FLARM!
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:05 PM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
automatronic: Aha! FLARM!
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:05 PM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
a cutesy name along the lines of man high.
That was actually an earlier 'stepping stone to space': altitude record-setting, with balloons.
posted by Rash at 12:44 PM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
That was actually an earlier 'stepping stone to space': altitude record-setting, with balloons.
posted by Rash at 12:44 PM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
It's fascinating that it's plausible enough that someone could strap on a bunch of hobbyist turbines and climb that high. There's already people flying around with hand and foot thrusters like Iron Man, albeit without the suit and blasters.
I kind of wish I had the energy (heh) to dive into the basic math on this and back it up with the current state of the art of small turbines, because my hunch is that 3,000 feet is pushing it with burn time and fuel loads and thrust to weight issues using current hobbyist jet suit or jet board projects as examples, but there are companies out there that have made more professionally developed combustion powered ducted fan "jet packs" that can handle that kind of VTOL flight.
On the other hand people can be totally bonkers and willing to take the chance on a super slim fuel load and delta V and thrust/weight/time ratio.
LA is definitely bonkers enough that some backyard hobbyist could do this and even take off from a rooftop or back yard in the right neighborhood where people just want to mind their own business and make it through the day.
It's also fascinating that it could be a prank. It would be much easier and cheaper to build a multirotor platform and a foamcore cutout like someone with a jetpack. Check out the Test Flight channel on YouTube for hundreds of examples. They've flown some really ridiculous things.
We're at a point with home aircraft modeling is so dirt cheap and easy and the power of brushless motors and LiPo packs and flight control systems means that you can put some motors and rotors on just about anything you want if you build it out of foam core or carbon graphite and it'll fly just fine, NACA airfoils or no.
I'm more in the "prank" camp because I've seen plenty of examples of it.
Part of my extended family as a youth used to prank JPL in particular on a regular basis back in the 60s and maybe 70w, including apparently flying a home-built hydrogen blimp or balloon of some kind with a payload of aluminum powder and foil chaff with a home brew radio and servo link to deploy it to dump the chaff to mess with JPL's and local ATC radar.
Go figure that he ended up working in aerospace more than once from shop floor to consultant and even aerial photographer for test flights.
I also want to believe we have a new Larry Walters, because that was real. People do cluster and single-occupant ballooning regularly today.
posted by loquacious at 5:02 PM on September 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
I kind of wish I had the energy (heh) to dive into the basic math on this and back it up with the current state of the art of small turbines, because my hunch is that 3,000 feet is pushing it with burn time and fuel loads and thrust to weight issues using current hobbyist jet suit or jet board projects as examples, but there are companies out there that have made more professionally developed combustion powered ducted fan "jet packs" that can handle that kind of VTOL flight.
On the other hand people can be totally bonkers and willing to take the chance on a super slim fuel load and delta V and thrust/weight/time ratio.
LA is definitely bonkers enough that some backyard hobbyist could do this and even take off from a rooftop or back yard in the right neighborhood where people just want to mind their own business and make it through the day.
It's also fascinating that it could be a prank. It would be much easier and cheaper to build a multirotor platform and a foamcore cutout like someone with a jetpack. Check out the Test Flight channel on YouTube for hundreds of examples. They've flown some really ridiculous things.
We're at a point with home aircraft modeling is so dirt cheap and easy and the power of brushless motors and LiPo packs and flight control systems means that you can put some motors and rotors on just about anything you want if you build it out of foam core or carbon graphite and it'll fly just fine, NACA airfoils or no.
I'm more in the "prank" camp because I've seen plenty of examples of it.
Part of my extended family as a youth used to prank JPL in particular on a regular basis back in the 60s and maybe 70w, including apparently flying a home-built hydrogen blimp or balloon of some kind with a payload of aluminum powder and foil chaff with a home brew radio and servo link to deploy it to dump the chaff to mess with JPL's and local ATC radar.
Go figure that he ended up working in aerospace more than once from shop floor to consultant and even aerial photographer for test flights.
I also want to believe we have a new Larry Walters, because that was real. People do cluster and single-occupant ballooning regularly today.
posted by loquacious at 5:02 PM on September 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
I live in LA and spend a lot of time looking at ADS-B data to find out what helicopters are over my head. LOLing at "the FBI is closing in" tweet because anyone who's listened to the ATC recording knows that just south of Cudahy near South Gate Park is where this must have been... 10 nautical miles from LAX on approach.
My theory is an intentional prank with a drone/quadcopter dressed up to look like a person. Why?
A) Low income area, so unlikely to be any jetpack owners. Rich influencer dudes with jetpacks would be at the beach or out in the desert shooting videos.
B) Right at at the point on LAX approach where planes from the west/north turn onto final approach. AKA the farthest from LAX you can be and still catch every plane coming in. Just far enough away to not get into immediate trouble, but planes coming through every 30s.
Here's some examples of fake "flying man" or "jetpack" drones:
posted by JauntyFedora at 10:44 PM on September 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
My theory is an intentional prank with a drone/quadcopter dressed up to look like a person. Why?
A) Low income area, so unlikely to be any jetpack owners. Rich influencer dudes with jetpacks would be at the beach or out in the desert shooting videos.
B) Right at at the point on LAX approach where planes from the west/north turn onto final approach. AKA the farthest from LAX you can be and still catch every plane coming in. Just far enough away to not get into immediate trouble, but planes coming through every 30s.
Here's some examples of fake "flying man" or "jetpack" drones:
posted by JauntyFedora at 10:44 PM on September 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
weirdo: You're thinking of MOOSE? I notice you wouldn't need a SpaceX rocket for that, it's light enough to make orbit on an Electron
I believe that is it, thanks! My brain was telling me the acronym was for "Man Out of Orbit Soonest" when I saw MOOSE, though. I'm not sure if that was an error I picked up from previous reading, if WP happens to be wrong, or if there was more than one aborted program for individual reentry from space.
There was definitely no shortage of crazy sounding ideas back in the 60s. Unfortunate that the ones we actually implemented were shitty CIA schemes to overthrow governments rather than fun space stuff.
posted by wierdo at 12:45 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
I believe that is it, thanks! My brain was telling me the acronym was for "Man Out of Orbit Soonest" when I saw MOOSE, though. I'm not sure if that was an error I picked up from previous reading, if WP happens to be wrong, or if there was more than one aborted program for individual reentry from space.
There was definitely no shortage of crazy sounding ideas back in the 60s. Unfortunate that the ones we actually implemented were shitty CIA schemes to overthrow governments rather than fun space stuff.
posted by wierdo at 12:45 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Individual reentry from orbit, not space. Re-entering the atmosphere from space is just skydiving with a pressure suit and oxygen. It's bleeding off the 10,000+ MPH worth of orbital velocity that generates the heat. If you just took a rocket straight up a couple hundred miles and jumped out at the apex, you'd have much less energy to dissipate.
Not having to go fast enough sideways to miss the ground is why sounding rockets are so much smaller than a rocket that inserts an object into an orbit of the same height.
Somewhat similarly, that's why it's highly unlikely that whatever the pilot saw wasn't actually a person on a jetpack. It takes a lot less energy (and fuel) to hold a person up when they jump out of a plane already flying at 6000 feet than it does to raise them from the ground to 6000 feet. Microturbines are easily capable of the former, not so much the latter, at least not with enough of a fuel load to reach that kind of altitude. The rocket equation makes such things hard any time your only source of lift is engine exhaust, not just when you're using a literal rocket.
posted by wierdo at 1:04 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not having to go fast enough sideways to miss the ground is why sounding rockets are so much smaller than a rocket that inserts an object into an orbit of the same height.
Somewhat similarly, that's why it's highly unlikely that whatever the pilot saw wasn't actually a person on a jetpack. It takes a lot less energy (and fuel) to hold a person up when they jump out of a plane already flying at 6000 feet than it does to raise them from the ground to 6000 feet. Microturbines are easily capable of the former, not so much the latter, at least not with enough of a fuel load to reach that kind of altitude. The rocket equation makes such things hard any time your only source of lift is engine exhaust, not just when you're using a literal rocket.
posted by wierdo at 1:04 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Iron Man, albeit without the suit
Or even with the suit!
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:04 AM on September 8, 2020
Or even with the suit!
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 5:04 AM on September 8, 2020
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