Humongous in a Girl Scout uniform: "Walk away"
March 9, 2020 11:55 AM Subscribe
YOU GUYS. I just saw the most wild thing! A man started walking toward the Girl Scouts cookie stand in front of the grocery store and he yelled “my bitches are BACK” and this Girl Scout just yelled “no. Walk away.” AND HE DID - Twitter thread
Blog post, if you'd rather not Twitter. But some of the Twitter comments are great.
Blog post, if you'd rather not Twitter. But some of the Twitter comments are great.
I get at one level, this wasn't cool, and he got pushed back and it worked, so that's the takeaway but the story frustrates me a bit because I don't "get" it - what was going on?
….Why would you require for there to be something going on above and beyond the fact that a man addressed a group of Girl Scouts as "my bitches", and one of the girls commanded the proper respect he should have extended from the get-go?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2020 [142 favorites]
….Why would you require for there to be something going on above and beyond the fact that a man addressed a group of Girl Scouts as "my bitches", and one of the girls commanded the proper respect he should have extended from the get-go?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2020 [142 favorites]
I read it as someone being casual with their misogyny and being immediately called out on that bullshit.
He was shutdown and I'm glad it happened, but it's shameful that he felt comfortable behaving that way in public to begin with.
I think thats the whole story. Her being classy and smooth in shutting that shit down before it could turn into something worse.
posted by Fizz at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2020 [40 favorites]
He was shutdown and I'm glad it happened, but it's shameful that he felt comfortable behaving that way in public to begin with.
I think thats the whole story. Her being classy and smooth in shutting that shit down before it could turn into something worse.
posted by Fizz at 12:15 PM on March 9, 2020 [40 favorites]
I guess i just don't understand either why this is even....anywhere?
posted by Bwentman at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Bwentman at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
This is great and all, but I also feel like I've witnessed many similar events as kind of a regular growing-up-female thing in my life. Not sure why it went viral this time. Twitter. Maybe something kinda happy in a world experiencing new levels of miserable on a daily basis.
posted by Miko at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Miko at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
That 12-year-old girls knowing that it’s OK to tell a man being inappropriate to take a hike is great?
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [136 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [136 favorites]
Was he someone unwell? Was this threatening? Welcoming (if inappropriate)?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assert that it is never appropriate for a man to refer to Girl Scouts as
posted by zamboni at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [70 favorites]
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assert that it is never appropriate for a man to refer to Girl Scouts as
my bitches.
posted by zamboni at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [70 favorites]
I guess the jist is that a girl basically told a man, who approached her while yelling inappropriate words, to fuck off instead of acting nice? Women are trained to basically be nice to everyone, even people who threaten us, so this little girl obviously knew her boundaries.
Edit: Didn't post fast enough!
posted by Young Kullervo at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
Edit: Didn't post fast enough!
posted by Young Kullervo at 12:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
That 12-year-old girls knowing that it’s OK to tell a man being inappropriate to take a hike is great?
But like it's just not that rare to have to do that. I had to when I was a teen. I am sure some other female people will come back me up on that.
posted by Miko at 12:18 PM on March 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
But like it's just not that rare to have to do that. I had to when I was a teen. I am sure some other female people will come back me up on that.
posted by Miko at 12:18 PM on March 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
But like it's just not that rare to have to do that. I had to when I was a teen. I am sure some other female people will come back me up on that.
I dunno if I've ever seen a situation like this in the wild, but I probably would have been the kid to yell this early on when I knew my own self worth and personal space was important. That is until I was trained to just grin and deal with it by the other women in my life because they are "just playing" and besides they're a customer.
posted by Young Kullervo at 12:21 PM on March 9, 2020 [18 favorites]
I dunno if I've ever seen a situation like this in the wild, but I probably would have been the kid to yell this early on when I knew my own self worth and personal space was important. That is until I was trained to just grin and deal with it by the other women in my life because they are "just playing" and besides they're a customer.
posted by Young Kullervo at 12:21 PM on March 9, 2020 [18 favorites]
It happened. It went viral. Literally no one can explain to you why some things go viral and others don't. If anyone here could tell you why, they'd be making millions and millions of dollars in marketing.
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on March 9, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on March 9, 2020 [25 favorites]
I don't think it's rare to have to, but I do think it's rare in some areas to do so.
Especially because in this case, capitalism is involved. They are turning down someone trying to give them money. If she were a real employee (instead of whatever you want to call a child raising money for her own educational experiences), she would absolutely be fired and lose her healthcare and other benefits for doing that.
posted by tofu_crouton at 12:23 PM on March 9, 2020 [36 favorites]
Especially because in this case, capitalism is involved. They are turning down someone trying to give them money. If she were a real employee (instead of whatever you want to call a child raising money for her own educational experiences), she would absolutely be fired and lose her healthcare and other benefits for doing that.
posted by tofu_crouton at 12:23 PM on March 9, 2020 [36 favorites]
(Sorry if I came across as snarky about the cookie sale. I love Girl Scouts the organization and I love cookies.)
posted by tofu_crouton at 12:24 PM on March 9, 2020
posted by tofu_crouton at 12:24 PM on March 9, 2020
I'm flabbergasted at the pushback this is getting. It's a fun little story about a girl who told a casually misogynistic man off. The world is on fire. Let's have fun when we can?
posted by Automocar at 12:27 PM on March 9, 2020 [53 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 12:27 PM on March 9, 2020 [53 favorites]
You, simple people: talking about the girl scout
Me, an intellectual: The Warrior of the Wasteland! The AYATOLLAH of ROCK AND ROLLAH!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:27 PM on March 9, 2020 [18 favorites]
Me, an intellectual: The Warrior of the Wasteland! The AYATOLLAH of ROCK AND ROLLAH!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:27 PM on March 9, 2020 [18 favorites]
I guess I just want to give credit to girls everywhere, and at all times, who loudly told jerks to fuck off. I want people to know it's not an anomaly.
posted by Miko at 12:28 PM on March 9, 2020 [31 favorites]
posted by Miko at 12:28 PM on March 9, 2020 [31 favorites]
Hi. Parent of a tween here. Based on what this girl said and how quickly she said it, and also based on her age, I'm going to guess she's been properly coached in self defense.
Actually useful self defense classes for young girls will emphasize spotting a threat and escaping it without physical engagement (because a 12yo girl will almost always lose a grapple with an adult man).
Most of the time, that means signalling loudly and confidently that you're not going to play along and the person in question should fuck off. Much of time, this will work, because the kind of man who would inappropriately engage with a Girl Scout is not looking for someone who's going to put up a fight.
And, because girls are mostly socialized to do whatever adults say, this involves a lot of rehearsal. Just running through scripted dialogs of confident, loud resistance does wonders. And I'm guessing that's where this kid's response came from.
(Of course maybe she's just unusually confident and poised for a middle-schooler, but people should know this kind of resilience can and should be taught)
posted by xthlc at 12:32 PM on March 9, 2020 [174 favorites]
Actually useful self defense classes for young girls will emphasize spotting a threat and escaping it without physical engagement (because a 12yo girl will almost always lose a grapple with an adult man).
Most of the time, that means signalling loudly and confidently that you're not going to play along and the person in question should fuck off. Much of time, this will work, because the kind of man who would inappropriately engage with a Girl Scout is not looking for someone who's going to put up a fight.
And, because girls are mostly socialized to do whatever adults say, this involves a lot of rehearsal. Just running through scripted dialogs of confident, loud resistance does wonders. And I'm guessing that's where this kid's response came from.
(Of course maybe she's just unusually confident and poised for a middle-schooler, but people should know this kind of resilience can and should be taught)
posted by xthlc at 12:32 PM on March 9, 2020 [174 favorites]
And if you know any other 12ish year old girls, maybe next time you see them have fun practicing "No! Walk Away!" with them. And get them a Not Today shirt.
posted by Miko at 12:32 PM on March 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by Miko at 12:32 PM on March 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
I guess I just want to give credit to girls everywhere, and at all times, who loudly told jerks to fuck off. I want people to know it's not an anomaly.
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s an anomaly. They are just enjoying a story of a girl really doing it right; that doesn’t invalidate all of the girls and women who also do it but didn’t happen to be recorded in that particular tweet. I’m a little confused by why you seem to think that recording and praising this one incident belittles others.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:38 PM on March 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s an anomaly. They are just enjoying a story of a girl really doing it right; that doesn’t invalidate all of the girls and women who also do it but didn’t happen to be recorded in that particular tweet. I’m a little confused by why you seem to think that recording and praising this one incident belittles others.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:38 PM on March 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
Because, to me, it's evidence that expectations for women to be silent and passive are still the norm among the general public. Treating it as an anomaly means that, despite reality, prevailing cultural assumptions have yet to shift.
posted by Miko at 12:40 PM on March 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by Miko at 12:40 PM on March 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
tofu_crouton: " If she were a real employee (instead of whatever you want to call a child raising money for her own educational experiences), she would absolutely be fired and lose her healthcare and other benefits for doing that."
I sorta hopefully think that even if this were a "real" employee in 2020 in a US employment situation they would not be fired for not allowing themselves to be verbally assaulted on the job. And if they were, let the hellfire of social meedja rain down on their employer.
posted by chavenet at 12:48 PM on March 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I sorta hopefully think that even if this were a "real" employee in 2020 in a US employment situation they would not be fired for not allowing themselves to be verbally assaulted on the job. And if they were, let the hellfire of social meedja rain down on their employer.
posted by chavenet at 12:48 PM on March 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
" If it had been filmed it would have won an Academy Award."
Which is why I'm amused... but somewhat skeptical.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 12:49 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Which is why I'm amused... but somewhat skeptical.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 12:49 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
To me, the amazing part is that the guy was embarrassed and immediately walked away. I'm sure he was surprised that she didn't giggle and engage with him, but I could see some adult men being enraged and coming over to complain to the (female) chaperones. Maybe that element of shame will help him in the future when he feels the need to shout at female-presenting people on the street.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:55 PM on March 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 12:55 PM on March 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
I'm flabbergasted at the pushback this is getting. It's a fun little story about a girl who told a casually misogynistic man off. The world is on fire. Let's have fun when we can?
tale as old as time
tweet as viewed as... crap what rhymes with
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:55 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
tale as old as time
tweet as viewed as... crap what rhymes with
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 12:55 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Because, to me, it's evidence that expectations for women to be silent and passive are still the norm among the general public. Treating it as an anomaly means that, despite reality, prevailing cultural assumptions have yet to shift.
Or, conversely, it’s evidence that attitudes are changing, and the positive response will normalize the behavior, and, hopefully, lead man to be less awful.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:56 PM on March 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
Or, conversely, it’s evidence that attitudes are changing, and the positive response will normalize the behavior, and, hopefully, lead man to be less awful.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:56 PM on March 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
Mod note: Few comments removed - it's fine to talk about positive and negative responses to this, but maybe have that discussion with people who are in this thread, not proxy enemies on the larger internet. thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:05 PM on March 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:05 PM on March 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'm a bit confused by people saying they don't understand why this is being talked about based on their own personal experience with the same sort of thing in the past. The implication being that it's a common occurrence, deal with it. But maybe, and hear me out, we should not want this to be common or even rare?
A good way to work toward that goal would be to call it out and talk about it. Another would be to fully support people calling it out.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 1:06 PM on March 9, 2020 [23 favorites]
A good way to work toward that goal would be to call it out and talk about it. Another would be to fully support people calling it out.
posted by Godspeed.You!Black.Emperor.Penguin at 1:06 PM on March 9, 2020 [23 favorites]
The implication being that it's a common occurrence, deal with it.
That’s definitely not an implication I read into anything that’s been posted here (the comments I’m guessing you’re referring to read as much more “girls can hold their own, why so surprised?” to me).
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 1:12 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
That’s definitely not an implication I read into anything that’s been posted here (the comments I’m guessing you’re referring to read as much more “girls can hold their own, why so surprised?” to me).
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 1:12 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I actually was getting the sense that the people who were saying "it's a common occurrence" were maybe saying that "girls calling people out is a common occurrence". If that's indeed the case - it's encouraging that the thought of girls calling men out is unremarkable to you, but many of us were not raised to do that. We were maybe told we should, but when we actually did we got pushback. So hearing an instance where it was supported is encouraging.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:17 PM on March 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:17 PM on March 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
I welcome all types of "the kids are alright" stories, especially young girls sticking up for themselves. Thank you for posting it.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:20 PM on March 9, 2020 [46 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:20 PM on March 9, 2020 [46 favorites]
"Enthusiastic people yelling weird, poorly thought out stuff at the Girl Scouts" is definitely a common occurrence at cookie booths. Please don't shout weird things at the Girl Scouts. That's the leader's job.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:20 PM on March 9, 2020 [57 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:20 PM on March 9, 2020 [57 favorites]
, I'm going to guess she's been properly coached in self defense.
Possibly even as part of Girl Scouts. Because the real moral of the story is, Girl Scouts is an awesome organization. Go Girl Scouts.
posted by Miko at 1:26 PM on March 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
Possibly even as part of Girl Scouts. Because the real moral of the story is, Girl Scouts is an awesome organization. Go Girl Scouts.
posted by Miko at 1:26 PM on March 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
(As a follow up to the Not Today link in the comments, the attacker died in prison a year later.)
posted by The Hamms Bear at 1:30 PM on March 9, 2020
posted by The Hamms Bear at 1:30 PM on March 9, 2020
My favourite bit:
I said to the girl, "I saw how you handled that man earlier. That was really really impressive. Your troop is pretty lucky to have you."posted by suetanvil at 1:33 PM on March 9, 2020 [54 favorites]
And this girl. This Goddess of a human. The one I'm for sure going to worship if ever she starts a religion. Without stuttering. With perfect comedic timing. She responded:
"You gotta be pretty tough if you're gonna go out in THIS outfit."
I sorta hopefully think that even if this were a "real" employee in 2020 in a US employment situation they would not be fired for not allowing themselves to be verbally assaulted on the job.
I work for a support call center for a company that absolutely loves money, and even our reps are allowed (hell, required) to hang up on customers who are being verbally abusive. Zero tolerance.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:35 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I work for a support call center for a company that absolutely loves money, and even our reps are allowed (hell, required) to hang up on customers who are being verbally abusive. Zero tolerance.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:35 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
MeTaFilTer: I guess i just don't understand either why this is even....anywhere?
posted by whimsicalnymph at 2:14 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by whimsicalnymph at 2:14 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Well, I'm delighted. I don't know I would have known how to handle this asshole so elegantly when I was (briefly) a Girl Scout, and I'm quite happy to think about the girl in question being celebrated by a big roiling delighted mess of people for telling some random asshole to fuck off. That has, to put it mildly, not been the reaction of anyone who observed me as a kid telling an adult to go away until he can be respectful to me.
Thanks for sharing.
posted by sciatrix at 2:39 PM on March 9, 2020 [29 favorites]
Thanks for sharing.
posted by sciatrix at 2:39 PM on March 9, 2020 [29 favorites]
As someone who wasn't real excited to see the return of "bitches" as a synonym for "female humans" in the past few years, this makes me happy. Why did this word become casually okay again, at least between women addressing one another?
posted by queensissy at 2:46 PM on March 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by queensissy at 2:46 PM on March 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
Hip Hop uses "bitches" a lot. That being said, my lesbian daughter will use it while playing Overwatch, so...
Ugh. Not a word I'm comfortable ever using.
And props to the Girl Scouts who have done everything so much better than the Boy Scouts...
posted by Windopaene at 3:08 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Ugh. Not a word I'm comfortable ever using.
And props to the Girl Scouts who have done everything so much better than the Boy Scouts...
posted by Windopaene at 3:08 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I can tell who in the thread has never had a young daughter.
My daughter is only 9, but she and her friends spend like 3 hours a day, every single day, just ripping the shit (they call it "roasting") out each other and just about everyone else they come in contact with. I can't even finish making a silly joke at her expense without her coming back with the perfect response.
By the time she's 12 (like the girls in this post), I'm legit preparing to having to deal with incidents of grown adults being brought to tears in public.
posted by sideshow at 3:11 PM on March 9, 2020 [18 favorites]
My daughter is only 9, but she and her friends spend like 3 hours a day, every single day, just ripping the shit (they call it "roasting") out each other and just about everyone else they come in contact with. I can't even finish making a silly joke at her expense without her coming back with the perfect response.
By the time she's 12 (like the girls in this post), I'm legit preparing to having to deal with incidents of grown adults being brought to tears in public.
posted by sideshow at 3:11 PM on March 9, 2020 [18 favorites]
We had this awful man at work who verbally abused young women and had inappropriate conversations with them. Nothing ever happened to him for this. When I was one of those young women, I avoided him until I aged out of his interest. Then one day, a young woman got hired who told him to knock it off. He left her alone. Other young women came onboard and were also not having it. Pretty soon he was unable to intimidate anyone. I am so proud of those young women.
posted by acrasis at 3:24 PM on March 9, 2020 [52 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 3:24 PM on March 9, 2020 [52 favorites]
Led my daisies at their first booth this weekend and no one called them bitches but we did have several old folks insist on handing them their dirty money even as their leaders were holding out gloved hands and saying "ONLY GROWN-UPS TAKE MONEY."
People are weird.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:51 PM on March 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
People are weird.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:51 PM on March 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
He loudly commanded the space and attention and used a word that was inappropriate. She commanded the space and attention and made her boundary clear. That this man respected it is nearly as amazing as the girl who demanded it. Everyone should feel good about this.
posted by amanda at 4:14 PM on March 9, 2020 [26 favorites]
posted by amanda at 4:14 PM on March 9, 2020 [26 favorites]
I read it like he was talking about the cookies. Probably wasn’t though.
posted by michaelh at 4:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by michaelh at 4:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
michaelh: "I read it like he was talking about the cookies. Probably wasn’t though."
yeah maybe he was saying "my BATCHES are back"
uh er no.
posted by chavenet at 4:45 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
yeah maybe he was saying "my BATCHES are back"
uh er no.
posted by chavenet at 4:45 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
People are weird.
I've bought cookies from two different sets of girls last week, and both times the transaction took like 15 minutes because both sets of adults pretended like the practically didn't even know the little girls as a way to force them to take ownership of the process. I mean to the point of not responding to me if I tried to directly speak to one of the adults. Those kids were either to going to make it happen, or miss out on the sale.
posted by sideshow at 4:49 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I've bought cookies from two different sets of girls last week, and both times the transaction took like 15 minutes because both sets of adults pretended like the practically didn't even know the little girls as a way to force them to take ownership of the process. I mean to the point of not responding to me if I tried to directly speak to one of the adults. Those kids were either to going to make it happen, or miss out on the sale.
posted by sideshow at 4:49 PM on March 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Is men harassing girls unusual? Hell no.
Is girls fighting back unusual, too? Hell no again.
Is this triumph over a gross man by a young girl still worth celebrating or even experiencing vicariously? Fuck yes.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 4:53 PM on March 9, 2020 [41 favorites]
Is girls fighting back unusual, too? Hell no again.
Is this triumph over a gross man by a young girl still worth celebrating or even experiencing vicariously? Fuck yes.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 4:53 PM on March 9, 2020 [41 favorites]
That’s exactly how I like my GSC transactions. If I wanted a smooth transaction buying cookies from an adult, I would have done it the grocery store I walked out of literally seconds earlier.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 4:54 PM on March 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 4:54 PM on March 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
> I can tell who in the thread has never had a young daughter.
Can you tell who's never been one?
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:59 PM on March 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
Can you tell who's never been one?
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:59 PM on March 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
This reportedly happened in Salt Lake City, Utah. It’s my experience that this town is not a great place for being Female In Public. Men around here pull this kind of norm-violating crap all the time.
I am 38 and I had a mild encounter with it just yesterday. Thanks to years of culturally-misogynistic programming, pest wouldn’t let up and the other men around wouldn’t intervene. So I instinctively went into “be-nice mode.” I exhausted myself trying to figure out how to leave the situation without offending the jackass. Because years ago, when I said something a demonstrably-weird guy didn’t want to hear, he violently attacked me and none of the dozens of witnesses did a goddamn thing to help.
“I don’t get why this is a big deal.” Spend a week here presenting as female and get back to me. This Girl Scout did something brave. From my seat, it even looks death-defying.
posted by armeowda at 5:06 PM on March 9, 2020 [65 favorites]
I am 38 and I had a mild encounter with it just yesterday. Thanks to years of culturally-misogynistic programming, pest wouldn’t let up and the other men around wouldn’t intervene. So I instinctively went into “be-nice mode.” I exhausted myself trying to figure out how to leave the situation without offending the jackass. Because years ago, when I said something a demonstrably-weird guy didn’t want to hear, he violently attacked me and none of the dozens of witnesses did a goddamn thing to help.
“I don’t get why this is a big deal.” Spend a week here presenting as female and get back to me. This Girl Scout did something brave. From my seat, it even looks death-defying.
posted by armeowda at 5:06 PM on March 9, 2020 [65 favorites]
But like it's just not that rare to have to do that. I had to when I was a teen.
So did I. And the world would have been a better place today if those who witnessed us had celebrated us as loudly and proudly as this girl is being celebrated. Instead I grew up ashamed of myself and my big mouth because whenever someone who knew me saw me talk back, they admonished me for putting myself in more danger and told me to stay home, cover up, make myself small.
But this is it, this is the solution we all needed, this is the culture turning against harassers and empowering girls to fight back. Let there be more of this medicine until toxic masculinity ends.
posted by MiraK at 5:37 PM on March 9, 2020 [45 favorites]
So did I. And the world would have been a better place today if those who witnessed us had celebrated us as loudly and proudly as this girl is being celebrated. Instead I grew up ashamed of myself and my big mouth because whenever someone who knew me saw me talk back, they admonished me for putting myself in more danger and told me to stay home, cover up, make myself small.
But this is it, this is the solution we all needed, this is the culture turning against harassers and empowering girls to fight back. Let there be more of this medicine until toxic masculinity ends.
posted by MiraK at 5:37 PM on March 9, 2020 [45 favorites]
Those kids were either to going to make it happen, or miss out on the sale.
Thank you for supporting TWO different booth sales!
We get a lot of guidance from service unit and council leadership to make every experience "girl led," and that goes double for cookie season. Do I know that our cookie transactions would go so much faster if an adult was doing the math on $20 to pay for two boxes of Thin Mints? Yes. But the girls get badges (or leaves, if they're Daisies) if they learn how to make change and close a sale.
Now I just have to teach my girls to all shout, "No. Walk away!" if they encounter something like this.
posted by sobell at 6:24 PM on March 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
Thank you for supporting TWO different booth sales!
We get a lot of guidance from service unit and council leadership to make every experience "girl led," and that goes double for cookie season. Do I know that our cookie transactions would go so much faster if an adult was doing the math on $20 to pay for two boxes of Thin Mints? Yes. But the girls get badges (or leaves, if they're Daisies) if they learn how to make change and close a sale.
Now I just have to teach my girls to all shout, "No. Walk away!" if they encounter something like this.
posted by sobell at 6:24 PM on March 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
When I was 25 I spent a year being a a classroom aide and playgrounds, lunchroom and bus supervisor for a model elementary school in a district that was implementing a desegregation program.
My experience was that there were girls from second through fifth grade who had little difficulty holding their own in a verbal fencing match with me. Maybe I should have been more chagrined by this, but I found it quite uplifting to realize on a number of occasions that some unimpressed little girl who'd recently lost both front teeth was actually wittier than I was.
That was not true of the little boys, most of whom only seemed to want to talk about sports, and that in highly stereotyped ways. Which I enjoyed myself and was generally happy to do.
I tried to sound out a few of the teachers I respected about this — and that school had some teachers better than anything I ever saw in school — and while I could usually get them to acknowledge it eventually in the course of conversation, they seemed to take it so much for granted that it was unremarkable to them.
posted by jamjam at 6:26 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
My experience was that there were girls from second through fifth grade who had little difficulty holding their own in a verbal fencing match with me. Maybe I should have been more chagrined by this, but I found it quite uplifting to realize on a number of occasions that some unimpressed little girl who'd recently lost both front teeth was actually wittier than I was.
That was not true of the little boys, most of whom only seemed to want to talk about sports, and that in highly stereotyped ways. Which I enjoyed myself and was generally happy to do.
I tried to sound out a few of the teachers I respected about this — and that school had some teachers better than anything I ever saw in school — and while I could usually get them to acknowledge it eventually in the course of conversation, they seemed to take it so much for granted that it was unremarkable to them.
posted by jamjam at 6:26 PM on March 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I've bought cookies from two different sets of girls last week, and both times the transaction took like 15 minutes because both sets of adults pretended like the practically didn't even know the little girls as a way to force them to take ownership of the process. I mean to the point of not responding to me if I tried to directly speak to one of the adults. Those kids were either to going to make it happen, or miss out on the sale.
Yes, as sobell said, this is normal, since the sales are girl-led, but my kids are kindergarten students and just interacting with strangers at all was hard for some of them. But we live in exciting times and we were trying to avoid having the children use hand sanitizer every ten seconds since they can't be trusted not to touch their faces immediately after touching money.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:48 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yes, as sobell said, this is normal, since the sales are girl-led, but my kids are kindergarten students and just interacting with strangers at all was hard for some of them. But we live in exciting times and we were trying to avoid having the children use hand sanitizer every ten seconds since they can't be trusted not to touch their faces immediately after touching money.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:48 PM on March 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I’ll never forget the moment a few years ago when I strode rapidly out of the grocery store with a scowl on my face, rushing past the table that I registered only as someone asking for my time and money, only to hear a middle school aged kid project ‘Would you like to buy some Girl Scout Cookies?’ with some serious volume.
Naturally I spun on my heel, a real heel turn! and bought some Samoas. I’m not made of steel.
posted by bq at 6:50 PM on March 9, 2020 [17 favorites]
Naturally I spun on my heel, a real heel turn! and bought some Samoas. I’m not made of steel.
posted by bq at 6:50 PM on March 9, 2020 [17 favorites]
> my kids are kindergarten students and just interacting with strangers at all was hard for some of them... they can't be trusted not to touch their faces immediately after touching money
I have Cadettes and it's exactly the same.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:51 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have Cadettes and it's exactly the same.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:51 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
That this man respected it is nearly as amazing as the girl who demanded it.
It's more likely that a man who enjoys calling Girl Scouts "bitches" is a world-class chicken-shit who uses aggression to hide his own insecurities and when anyone calls him on it he turns tail and runs.
And this young woman is amazing. I wish I'd had that kind of confidence that young.
posted by bendy at 7:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
It's more likely that a man who enjoys calling Girl Scouts "bitches" is a world-class chicken-shit who uses aggression to hide his own insecurities and when anyone calls him on it he turns tail and runs.
And this young woman is amazing. I wish I'd had that kind of confidence that young.
posted by bendy at 7:16 PM on March 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
“It’s common behavior - get over it” /paraphrase
This is the problem. I have spent hours - HOURS - trying to explain to my female friends that just because guys have grabbed their asses in bars for years and they knew to tell them to duck off, that it’s not okay. We need to change the norm from men default to acting like pigs to men default to behaving with respect.
Yes yes - I know - not all men. Move along.
posted by double bubble at 7:34 PM on March 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
This is the problem. I have spent hours - HOURS - trying to explain to my female friends that just because guys have grabbed their asses in bars for years and they knew to tell them to duck off, that it’s not okay. We need to change the norm from men default to acting like pigs to men default to behaving with respect.
Yes yes - I know - not all men. Move along.
posted by double bubble at 7:34 PM on March 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
It’s common behavior - get over it”
Just because it sounds like it might not be clear, nobody here is saying this. When I talked about it being maybe not incredibly remarkable, I mean the girl’s presence of mind and assertiveness, not the dude, whose behavior is common enough.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Just because it sounds like it might not be clear, nobody here is saying this. When I talked about it being maybe not incredibly remarkable, I mean the girl’s presence of mind and assertiveness, not the dude, whose behavior is common enough.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on March 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Respectfully, Miko, your initial response to this post does not come across that way, and subsequently set the tone for many of the comments to follow.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 7:54 PM on March 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by Kitchen Witch at 7:54 PM on March 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
You are right - i know everyone here gets it. I'm very frustrated with the wider world. I can't convince my otherwise rational family, friends, coworkers, etc (both female and male) that so-called locker room humor is unacceptable. How do we ever get the world to treat women with respect?
I celebrate this tweet because, at least one young girl learned how she wants to be treated, she has learned to stand up for herself, and there was at least one man who witnessed it that recognized how amazing it was.
posted by double bubble at 7:57 PM on March 9, 2020
I celebrate this tweet because, at least one young girl learned how she wants to be treated, she has learned to stand up for herself, and there was at least one man who witnessed it that recognized how amazing it was.
posted by double bubble at 7:57 PM on March 9, 2020
"It’s common behavior - get over it”
Just because it sounds like it might not be clear, nobody here is saying this. When I talked about it being maybe not incredibly remarkable, I mean the girl’s presence of mind and assertiveness, not the dude, whose behavior is common enough.
I don't understand why you object to this all of the "remarking", Miko. Like, I understand that your point is that this is all common. But your words don't convey a sense of pleased surprise, like, "Oh wow, how unexpected *and awesome* that everyone is talking about this incident even though it's nothing unusual!" On the contrary, it sounds you're repeatedly saying, "Geez, what's the big deal, it happens every day, stop making such a fuss." That's what comes across even in this clarification.
Why the objection?
posted by MiraK at 8:18 PM on March 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Just because it sounds like it might not be clear, nobody here is saying this. When I talked about it being maybe not incredibly remarkable, I mean the girl’s presence of mind and assertiveness, not the dude, whose behavior is common enough.
I don't understand why you object to this all of the "remarking", Miko. Like, I understand that your point is that this is all common. But your words don't convey a sense of pleased surprise, like, "Oh wow, how unexpected *and awesome* that everyone is talking about this incident even though it's nothing unusual!" On the contrary, it sounds you're repeatedly saying, "Geez, what's the big deal, it happens every day, stop making such a fuss." That's what comes across even in this clarification.
Why the objection?
posted by MiraK at 8:18 PM on March 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
One of the things that's so strong about the response of "No, walk away!" is that it verbalizes the most appropriate response to the entire situation rather than engaging the words. I feel like a lot of the time people respond with a response that implies the dialogue is acceptable. So sharing an example of a girl cutting straight to responding to the bullshit is really powerful.
posted by ambrosen at 10:56 PM on March 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by ambrosen at 10:56 PM on March 9, 2020 [14 favorites]
Instead I grew up ashamed of myself and my big mouth because whenever someone who knew me saw me talk back, they admonished me for putting myself in more danger and told me to stay home, cover up, make myself small.
In December, I resisted/fought off a mugger while I was doing food delivery. I was shocked at the number of people that admonished me for fighting back. Hell, I did it too myself. I mean I get it, but I was also there and they weren’t. But I also knew in the moment that the guy was too big, too close and closing and the ONLY opportunity I had was to be difficult and loud before I let him back me into/against my car.
And some people STILL admonished me for resisting after hearing me explain why. Even though I was there and it was one of those times my gut knew what I needed to do and I listened.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:37 PM on March 9, 2020 [30 favorites]
In December, I resisted/fought off a mugger while I was doing food delivery. I was shocked at the number of people that admonished me for fighting back. Hell, I did it too myself. I mean I get it, but I was also there and they weren’t. But I also knew in the moment that the guy was too big, too close and closing and the ONLY opportunity I had was to be difficult and loud before I let him back me into/against my car.
And some people STILL admonished me for resisting after hearing me explain why. Even though I was there and it was one of those times my gut knew what I needed to do and I listened.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 11:37 PM on March 9, 2020 [30 favorites]
my kids are kindergarten students and just interacting with strangers at all was hard for some of them... they can't be trusted not to touch their faces immediately after touching moneyI'm 47 and couldn't be trusted not to touch my face with the money
I have Cadettes and it's exactly the same.
Also, the kids are all right.
posted by fullerine at 4:08 AM on March 10, 2020 [19 favorites]
But your words don't convey a sense of pleased surprise
That's because I'm not surprised. Is surprise required?
I don't get why people are so obsessed with my reaction. I mean, think what you want to think about this - you don't have to argue with me that I should have a different reaction, you have several other options of things to talk about including the good points that some girls don't get this encouragement growing up and it might help them and others to celebrate it - but I'm not required to fall over myself about a viral story on Twitter because that's what we agreed today. If you think there's only one acceptable response to the meme of the day, or that you should dictate how others respond to things based on their own lived experience, that's a bit odd in my view.
I'm proud of girls and of Scouts. I've seen them do stuff like this my whole life. I've done stuff like this my whole life. Watching women and girls ward off potential harms has been a constant since I have a conscious memory. It goes back to time immemorial, to women carrying hatpins on the subway and far earlier than that. There are so many examples of it that I was just puzzled at this guy's surprise and that he made such a huge deal of it - to me, it speaks more of his lack of experience with girls, women and women's realities than anything else.
Women and girls are still the focus of victimization efforts by men, that's a outrage but not a surprise; women and girls have agency and power, that's a real positive and worth celebrating, but not a surprise. If this is a surprise for you, I guess it's probably a good thing in general that you had this opportunity to think about it. And if it's not a surprise but you think it's worth cheering about because it helps empower others, that's an excellent point I had not considered and appreciate it being brought up.
I find this an interesting conversation but "you should be more surprised" or "you should be more {anything really)" is a non-starter for me; I don't believe in required feelings. I'm happy to discuss possible resonances of the incident and its general significance and reflecting on it, but suggesting there's something wrong with my response, or that a different response from me is required to carry on a conversation about this thing, is weird and intrusive. I'm here to be like "yes, girls do this and can do this and have agency and always have" and that's about it. I don't want to be the focus of the thread, I would much rather the thing itself be the focus of the thread. Might that be possible at this point?
posted by Miko at 4:23 AM on March 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
That's because I'm not surprised. Is surprise required?
I don't get why people are so obsessed with my reaction. I mean, think what you want to think about this - you don't have to argue with me that I should have a different reaction, you have several other options of things to talk about including the good points that some girls don't get this encouragement growing up and it might help them and others to celebrate it - but I'm not required to fall over myself about a viral story on Twitter because that's what we agreed today. If you think there's only one acceptable response to the meme of the day, or that you should dictate how others respond to things based on their own lived experience, that's a bit odd in my view.
I'm proud of girls and of Scouts. I've seen them do stuff like this my whole life. I've done stuff like this my whole life. Watching women and girls ward off potential harms has been a constant since I have a conscious memory. It goes back to time immemorial, to women carrying hatpins on the subway and far earlier than that. There are so many examples of it that I was just puzzled at this guy's surprise and that he made such a huge deal of it - to me, it speaks more of his lack of experience with girls, women and women's realities than anything else.
Women and girls are still the focus of victimization efforts by men, that's a outrage but not a surprise; women and girls have agency and power, that's a real positive and worth celebrating, but not a surprise. If this is a surprise for you, I guess it's probably a good thing in general that you had this opportunity to think about it. And if it's not a surprise but you think it's worth cheering about because it helps empower others, that's an excellent point I had not considered and appreciate it being brought up.
I find this an interesting conversation but "you should be more surprised" or "you should be more {anything really)" is a non-starter for me; I don't believe in required feelings. I'm happy to discuss possible resonances of the incident and its general significance and reflecting on it, but suggesting there's something wrong with my response, or that a different response from me is required to carry on a conversation about this thing, is weird and intrusive. I'm here to be like "yes, girls do this and can do this and have agency and always have" and that's about it. I don't want to be the focus of the thread, I would much rather the thing itself be the focus of the thread. Might that be possible at this point?
posted by Miko at 4:23 AM on March 10, 2020 [15 favorites]
Cannot buy in Australia, displeased.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:40 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:40 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Miko, the pleased-surprise is for people celebrating this girl - celebrating girls like her happens much too rarely. You seem really upset about people celebrating this girl, and I was trying to understand why. Only curious! Not judging you. I appreciate you ❤️
posted by MiraK at 4:49 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by MiraK at 4:49 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Folks, please drop this derail. Miko has explained her thoughts, and isn't saying the girl isn't worth the happy thoughts / admiration. We don't need to fight or scold each other about every last little thing if our individual takes don't happen to align in precision uniformity.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:39 AM on March 10, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:39 AM on March 10, 2020 [13 favorites]
I think this tweet went viral because like the Wednesday Addams clip, there's a contrast between the image of Girl Scouts (which is an awesome organization although as a Canadian, the Girl Guides are the proper terminology) and the interaction.
Yes, the Girl Scouts teach all kinds of things like self-defense that counters their image but their promise still reads:
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
So not being helpful in this case can be just kind of...lovely. That's my take anyway.
One of the most awesome podcasts ever IMO is Reply All's look at the Girl Guides in an internment camp during WW2, which definitely speaks to the awesomeness that should not be a surprise, but still sometimes delights.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:44 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes, the Girl Scouts teach all kinds of things like self-defense that counters their image but their promise still reads:
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
So not being helpful in this case can be just kind of...lovely. That's my take anyway.
One of the most awesome podcasts ever IMO is Reply All's look at the Girl Guides in an internment camp during WW2, which definitely speaks to the awesomeness that should not be a surprise, but still sometimes delights.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:44 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Cannot buy in Australia, displeased.
For what it's worth, Mint Slice biscuits are better than Thin Mints.
posted by zamboni at 7:52 AM on March 10, 2020
For what it's worth, Mint Slice biscuits are better than Thin Mints.
posted by zamboni at 7:52 AM on March 10, 2020
I so wish I had been this Girl Scout at that age. And I hope she is not the exception - if this generation of girls absorbs the lessons she learned, there is hope for the future. Thanks for this!
posted by bluesky43 at 8:05 AM on March 10, 2020
posted by bluesky43 at 8:05 AM on March 10, 2020
Joe in Australia: The Girl Guides have cookies for sale right now!
posted by divabat at 8:22 AM on March 10, 2020
posted by divabat at 8:22 AM on March 10, 2020
Aside: Girl Guide cookies are not at all on par with Girl Scout cookies. Sorry Canada.
posted by eviemath at 9:53 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by eviemath at 9:53 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Aside: Girl Guide cookies are not at all on par with Girl Scout cookies. Sorry Canada.
Sadly agree. Sorry!
posted by warriorqueen at 10:00 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Sadly agree. Sorry!
posted by warriorqueen at 10:00 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Our eight-year-old Brownie is currently selling cookies and I can't wait to tell her about this. I fucking love this story!
posted by kirkaracha at 12:41 PM on March 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 12:41 PM on March 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
I definitely felt some confusion while reading the link, probably because it involves a word that's been halfway re-appropriated.
I can't, for the life of me, figure out where that guy was going with all of this. Was he going for a familiar and campy "Heyyyyy bitches!" even though that's something you should only do in really familiar situations, and not when you're trying to buy cookies from a bunch of children?
And why "My bitches!" which, with its possessive, pushes things into like, Migos territory? What?
Anyhow, props to a self-possessed kid who's ready and willing to drag a grown-ass man.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:50 PM on March 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
I can't, for the life of me, figure out where that guy was going with all of this. Was he going for a familiar and campy "Heyyyyy bitches!" even though that's something you should only do in really familiar situations, and not when you're trying to buy cookies from a bunch of children?
And why "My bitches!" which, with its possessive, pushes things into like, Migos territory? What?
Anyhow, props to a self-possessed kid who's ready and willing to drag a grown-ass man.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 5:50 PM on March 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
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I get at one level, this wasn't cool, and he got pushed back and it worked, so that's the takeaway but the story frustrates me a bit because I don't "get" it - what was going on?
posted by stevil at 12:12 PM on March 9, 2020