How to Tell If You’re a Jerk
September 16, 2016 9:19 AM Subscribe

If you think everyone around you is terrible, the joke may be on you.

Here’s something you probably didn’t do this morning: Look in the mirror and ask, am I a jerk?

posted by poffin boffin (203 comments total) 36 users marked this as a favorite

Assessments of what a jerk is and whether or not I am one aside, 'jerk' is such a great word, and a perfectly non-sexist one you can substitute in for another popular thing to call people who are assholes.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 9:24 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

What if I think both (a) everyone's a jerk, AND (b) I'm also a jerk?
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:26 AM on September 16, 2016 [40 favorites]

Assessments of what a jerk is and whether or not I am one aside, 'jerk' is such a great word, and a perfectly non-sexist one you can substitute in for another popular thing to call people who are assholes.

It's also delicious!
posted by Dysk at 9:26 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

probably means I'm half-right
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:27 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I still believe the dark-jerkiverse theorem is plausible.
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Has the author met a lot of people?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:29 AM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

"You run into an asshole in the morning, you've met one asshole..."
posted by gauche at 9:29 AM on September 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Here’s something you probably didn’t do this morning: Look in the mirror and ask, am I a jerk?

Incorrect! I literally looked at myself in front of the mirror this morning before heading out the door to determine if I looked like someone worth trying to talk to on public transit and assessed that no, I did not, so I okayed myself to leave the house.
posted by phunniemee at 9:31 AM on September 16, 2016 [35 favorites]

I'm a Good Soul. It's not as rewarding as being a jerk, but at least I have the Internet.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:32 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Honestly, I'm aware I'm sorta hard to get along with in a moderately antisocial, not-too-tolerant-of-perceived-stupidity sort of way.

That said, I take the time to park in a single space and I wait my turn in line and if I decide I don't want the hot pockets this time, I put them back in the goddamn freezer I got them from.

Your mileage may vary.
posted by Mooski at 9:36 AM on September 16, 2016 [35 favorites]

WELL THE JERK STORE CALLED, THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF ME.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:36 AM on September 16, 2016 [56 favorites]

oh god i can't fucking believe i didn't title this thread THE JERK STORE CALLED
posted by poffin boffin at 9:39 AM on September 16, 2016 [95 favorites]

I find that I am needed more conscious will to not be short with retail people uselelessly greeting me (that's for anti-theft I think), trying to get me to enroll in loyalty cards, trying to upsell me "oh if you buy 3 it's $5 off") etc. I miss the old days where you walk in, look around, no one bothers you, if you need help you find someone and ask for it, you give money, have a nice day, and done!

The thing is, they are being made to do these things, as a pretty crappy part of a pretty crappy job, and it is totally not their fault that I'm mildly irritated by them. So I am not a complete jerk, I hope, or I'd not even be interested in reflecting and making an effort to be nice.
posted by thelonius at 9:39 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

(Is "jerk" really non-sexist? I figured it was short for "jerk-off" and therefore, like "prick" or "dick" or "wanker," a gendered insult targeted at men... at least etymologically, even if it's not used that way now... Still, it's considered a more polite word than "asshole" and we need some word for this...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:40 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

everyone has an asshole and it is non-gendered, so maybe let's use that
posted by thelonius at 9:41 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I do my best to be kind to others--mostly because I am pretty shy as well as prone to daydreaming--but I am sure I have my jerky moments.
posted by Kitteh at 9:41 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I live in a 1930s town the economic engine of which is entirely drug store soda fountains; everyone around me is a jerk.
posted by beerperson at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2016 [23 favorites]

WELL THE JERK STORE CALLED, THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF ME.

What's it matter, I'm their all-time best seller.
posted by griphus at 9:42 AM on September 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

jesus christ it's like a reflex
posted by griphus at 9:43 AM on September 16, 2016 [13 favorites]

Is "jerk" really non-sexist? I figured it was short for "jerk-off" and therefore, like "prick" or "dick" or "wanker," a gendered insult targeted at men... at least etymologically, even if it's not used that way now...

Mental Floss disagrees:

3. JERK (N), “A TEDIOUS AND INEFFECTUAL PERSON.”
Steam engines were awesome—way better than sailing around Cape Horn if you needed to get from New York to California. But, since they ran on steam, they needed to be refilled with water ridiculously often. “Water-stops” were built all along the railroad lines. These were just water towers, with hanging chains that the boiler man would “jerk” to start the water flowing. Towns sprang up around many of these water-stops. Some thrived, and some were just jerk-water towns, populated with “jerks.”

And ladies jerk-off too.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:47 AM on September 16, 2016 [20 favorites]

I like how that edymonline.com link points out that no, Big Rock Candy Mountain isn't an early example of Jerk, it's just another example of racism.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:50 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is the word ever applied to women in practice, though? I'm finding it hard to imagine anyone (male or female) doing so.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:52 AM on September 16, 2016

If the article is any measure, I never quite rise to the level of jerk. I am, however, a total curmudgeon.
posted by briank at 9:53 AM on September 16, 2016

"If everyone around you is an asshole, it's not them - it's you."

On the other hand, there's this now famous 2010 tweet by @debihope, often incorrectly attributed to William Gibson:

Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.

Coincidentally, an adjusted version of the quote is sometimes seen, attributed to Freud:

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, surrounded by jerks."

Almost certainly bowdlerized by an asshole.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:56 AM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

I know I'm a jerk. It takes everything I can to suppress it all the time, and then I have to blow off steam every so often. A guy came in today to do some research, and I helped him, which is my job, and I was very civil and friends, and then he said "This is for a possible documentary," and as soon as he left I exploded NO IT IS NOT FOR A POSSIBLE DOCUMENTARY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE THAT DOCUMENTARY YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND FUNDING OR DISTRIBUTION AND IF YOU POST IT TO YOUTUBE YOU WILL GET 30 VIEWS.

My whole life is spent in mild irritation at everybody else in the world, and if it could express itself all the time, it would. But I know I am in the wrong, and so I keep it bottled, and then complain to my dog at night, who I love very much, but, honestly, is a bit irritating too.
posted by maxsparber at 9:56 AM on September 16, 2016 [78 favorites]

Is the word ever applied to women in practice, though? I'm finding it hard to imagine anyone (male or female) doing so.

My family applies it to both genders.
posted by Four Ds at 9:56 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I spend about 60% of my time agonizing about whether I'm being a jerk, and all I can say is this rule may hold generally, but there are at least two stages in life where, at least if you're American, you may very well be entirely fair and correct in judging the majority of your peers as assholes: 1) Middle school; and 2) Middle age.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:57 AM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

Is the word ever applied to women in practice, though? I'm finding it hard to imagine anyone (male or female) doing so.

Seems to be here. I would consider 'asshole' to be the one that's never used with women, if only because there's already a word for that. Jerk is far less harsh than either and is used on either gender.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:00 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

At any given moment, I am positive that not only am I a jerk, but that the only worse jerk in human history is me, from five years before.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:00 AM on September 16, 2016 [25 favorites]

There's also jerks who don't see everyone as being jerks- they either don't think about anyone else at all, or they think everyone is exactly like them, and are enjoying their behavior as much as they are.
posted by thewumpusisdead at 10:05 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

As someone who rate of acceleration often changes, I feel like this label is unfair and unnecessary.
posted by GuyZero at 10:06 AM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:08 AM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]

As someone who rate of acceleration often changes, I feel like this label is unfair and unnecessary.

I'm sure soda jerks take issue with this as well, when they're not alley ooping a perfect globe of ice cream through the air and into the malt machine to make a Triple Vanilla Whammo Surprise.
posted by maxsparber at 10:09 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't hold doors or elevators, so there are absolutely people who think I'm a jerk or worse.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:09 AM on September 16, 2016

There's also jerks who don't see everyone as being jerks- they either don't think about anyone else at all, or they think everyone is exactly like them, and are enjoying their behavior as much as they are.

These are the worst. They have ruined families, countries, and parties.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:09 AM on September 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Am I the only one on earth who knows that being a soda jerk was sort of a performance, a lot like the flair contests that bartenders have?
posted by maxsparber at 10:10 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jerk bending.
posted by Groundhog Week at 10:11 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm nice to people who have been nice to me for a long stretch of time, otherwise, being a jerk is the best way to not be exploited by people who think because I'm nice, I can also be low-priority for them. I'd rather be "that difficult person" than "the patsy who'll do anything if we ask him".
posted by lmfsilva at 10:11 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

This may be the greatest article ever.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:12 AM on September 16, 2016

I'm sure soda jerks take issue with this as well, when they're not alley ooping a perfect globe of ice cream through the air and into the malt machine to make a Triple Vanilla Whammo Surprise.

I so don't want my ice-cream alley-ooped. I don't know where that jerk's hands have been.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:13 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?

Sadly, no.

Augh, this is precisely the kind of article I can't read because it just gives me horrible recursive panic attacks about how maybe I'm a jerk, and then I do the therapist-recommended talking-myself-down process, and then I worry that by talking myself down I am not holding myself accountable for terrible personal failings and then I have to talk myself down again, etc.

It is possible both to be "oh ha ha it's so awful, I worry that I am a jerk all the time" in a performative way and also to sincerely worry quite a lot that you are a jerk. But then that becomes recursive too.

I am happiest when I am alone, actually.
posted by Frowner at 10:16 AM on September 16, 2016 [42 favorites]

…did you just admit publicly that you never hold doors or elevators for people? Why the hell not? You can't just drop that in here and not even try to explain yourself.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:16 AM on September 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?

Worse. German kid turned wannabe American. Anytime I told where I came from, I'd have to spend ten minutes reassuring people I wasn't a Nazi. Holocaust-guilt can be confusing for a kid trying to assimilate... Sad thing is, half the time, the other kids seemed disappointed I wasn't secretly a Nazi...
posted by saulgoodman at 10:18 AM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

…did you just admit publicly that you never hold doors or elevators for people? Why the hell not? You can't just drop that in here and not even try to explain yourself.

Followup request: if the answer isn't something like "because it turns out the surgeon was his MOTHER" phrase it like that anyway
posted by griphus at 10:19 AM on September 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Me, too, maxsparber. I'm all right a lot of the time, but I've noticed I become an unbearable person any time I have to wait for something. I'm bad in traffic and terrible at the laundromat, but the alltime worst is when I'm in line at the farmers' market. Nobody in front of me can do anything right. I'm thinking "shut up shut up stop talking folksily to the farmer shut up get out of the way aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh getoutofthewaygetoutoftheway, I want the peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeas, get your hands off them, NOOOOO, don't take out your empty egg cartons that you have virtuously saved for the farmer for your tencenteach discount, NOOOO don't buy eggs, they have to go into the cooler for eggs and it's way over there AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaAAAAAaaagh!!!" I try to restrain myself from violent impatient wholebody thrashings of rage, but i know I've been spotted and that pretending I got waspbit or something is not going to work and they're all going to know. I mean, I bring back my egg cartons, too, but I just drop them on the table in passing and move the hell on. There's no need to have a conversation about it! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

PS: You're definitely a jerk for not holding elevators, but please continue to drop the door and move on with your day. Don't hold the door for me. Don't. Hold. The door. Don't stand there waiting while I'm no kidding fifteen the fuck feet away and hold the door. Don't do that. If you're doing that, know that I'm yelling "AAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaa,I HATE YOU" in my head the whole time I'm smilingly walking up to you and thanking you for your great kindness. I mean, unless I'm carrying packages or something, why would you do that?
posted by Don Pepino at 10:21 AM on September 16, 2016 [22 favorites]

I'm sorry, but for the most part on public transit I'm not looking around me and thinking how full of scintillating individual goodness and specialness everyone around me is, and I can guarantee you that they aren't thinking that of me or anyone else around them either. We're all just trying to get to work or get home in one piece.
posted by blucevalo at 10:21 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I don't hold doors or elevators, so there are absolutely people who think I'm a jerk or worse.

It's one of the lowest energy forms of positive social behavior we can perform for our fellow humans, making a stranger's day a little better, so yeah I vote for "or worse."

(Unless it's Don Pepino and they're more than 5 meters away.)
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:22 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

DirtyOldTown: Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?

Yes, but not terribly strictly. I think I'm more hyperconscious of my potential jerkitude as a function of social ostracisation and bullying as a child, combined with ADD-induced anxiety.
posted by SansPoint at 10:22 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

All I know is that the dog likes me and that's good enough for me.
posted by backseatpilot at 10:24 AM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

If you're doing that, know that I'm yelling "AAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaa,I HATE YOU" in my head the whole time I'm smilingly walking up to you and thanking you for your great kindness.

I don't consider it in any way a great kindness, I consider it a mere common courtesy in a world where there are far too few of them anymore. You don't like it, you're welcome not to thank me or smile at me, and I'll either think you're a jerk for a microsecond or I won't have noticed because I'll have already gone on my way. Problem solved!
posted by blucevalo at 10:26 AM on September 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Well let's not forget people who hold doors when you are inappropriately far away from the door and they should just ignore you
posted by thelonius at 10:27 AM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

…did you just admit publicly that you never hold doors or elevators for people? Why the hell not? You can't just drop that in here and not even try to explain yourself.

Libertarian
posted by beerperson at 10:27 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

thelonious: I look behind me when I'm leaving somewhere and hold the door if someone is clearly following me. Sometimes people shake their head to indicate they don't need me to hold the door, so I let it go.

The tricky bit is the ballet when I'm leaving my apartment building along with someone else. I'll typically end up holding the elevator door (which is a swinging, manual door, not a sliding, automatic door), then opening the inside vestibule door to let someone through, and they'll open the building's front door and I'll follow.
posted by SansPoint at 10:32 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

There is a sort of distance/time measure that is critical for whether holding the door is courteous or obnoxious.

If I'm within a step or three of you and holding the door means it doesn't slam in my face and a brief elegant pause on your part means I get to walk through right after you, that's terrific. You should totally do that.

If I haven't even stepped up onto the sidewalk yet and you stand there all TAAA-DAAA! and leave me to make a split-second decision whether to either make a stranger stand around waiting for me or to have to sheepishly jog after you so that I can enjoy the boon of you generous door-opening skills, then you can go fuck yourself.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:33 AM on September 16, 2016 [27 favorites]

I confess. 'Be Kind, Rewind' was always optional for me.
posted by adept256 at 10:34 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Libertarian

No no no, the requested form is "because it turns out the surgeon was a LIBERTARIAN", jerk!
unless it turns out the libertarian was his mother
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:35 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

You're definitely a jerk for not holding elevators

Doors is one thing (assuming a close enough following distance), but many elevator lobbies with more than one elevator are designed not to be held. By holding, you are slowing down the whole system and are, in fact, the jerk.
posted by Copronymus at 10:35 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Self-diagnosed Metafilter jerks are the best people.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:40 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

God, enough with the Trump posts!
posted by leotrotsky at 10:41 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Holding doors for people who are a.) not walking with you, and b.) not so encumbered as to be unable to hold the door themselves, makes the world a worse place, and, IMHO is a jerk move.

If you are walking solo, when you go through a door, the right thing to do is to give it a extra push wider as you walk through, so that you make sure it doesn't close on the face of someone directly behind you. If someone is far enough behind you that they can't catch the door after you've pushed it out, then they are too far behind you to get through without awkwardness.

I don't have a strong feeling about elevators, but since I tend to frequent multi-car elevator lobbies I will decline held elevators when given the chance, and generally not bother to hold the elevator for someone who isn't rushing for it. (If someone is making the effort to get in your elevator car, it's a jerk move to not give them the extra couple of seconds).
posted by sparklemotion at 10:42 AM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't think everyone around me is terrible. It's everyone else who thinks everyone around them are terrible.
posted by naju at 10:42 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

If the author does not believe everyone is terrible, how do they explain Facebook?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:45 AM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

Actually, you know what I really hate? Men holding doors for women/gender-nonconforming people when it's not needed - when you're far away from the door and feel like you have to hurry up so they aren't stuck there so you end up doing a little run across the pavement - as an act of either gender aggression or chivalry. Or when they insist on women going first even when this substantially delays the whole process. It's like, what I really want is to fucking get in the elevator, joe, not stand here while you twirl your hat.

I wish people would just hold doors when and only when the door is going to slam in someone's face if not held or when the other person has a clear material need - they're carrying a toddler, on crutches, have their arms full of groceries, etc.

There's a certain type of man that I encounter from time to time who will do a stupid little chivalry-off with me to remind me that no matter how short my hair, how mannish my pants, etc, I am Just A Woman While He Is A Man. The way this works, inevitably, is either where I'm fifteen feet from an easy to open door and he just stands there and stands there or else where we're waiting for the elevator and he is close to the elevator but I'm at the other side of the elevator bank and he still won't go into the elevator first, no, we have to wait until I get there, and that means that again, I have to run or we'll lose the elevator.

The point of those interactions seems to be making it clear to me that I have to do what he wants - I can either do a little run across the elevator lobby or reveal my true nature as an Ugly Queer Discipline Case, and since this almost always happens at work, I pretty much have to make nice rather than saunter.

Or there was the time when a group of three creepy older dudes held both doors for me in a flourish of m'lady-tude and then called me a women's libber when I seemed uncomfortable. Which I was - having to walk up to and then pass between a group of hostile older men who were starting at me brought back a lot of bad memories.

Does this make me a jerk? Maybe, and so be it.
posted by Frowner at 10:46 AM on September 16, 2016 [26 favorites]

"The jerk will either dismiss the criticism, counterattack, bloviate, storm off, or smile and sink the knife in deeper."

And those of us who have been conditioned to always ask if we are being kind enough, considerate enough, and unselfish enough are CONSTANTLY assuming we are jerks while the real jerks have these great coping mechanisms that shelter them from feeling badly...ever.

I am actually in awe of jerks, and I wish I had the talent for dismissing criticism. Jerks may annoy everyone else, but they seem quite happy in their self-appreciating bubble.
posted by Dr_Janeway at 10:46 AM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

I feel like there's a great deal of crossover here with that Finnish Social Terrors cartoon thing in terms of things that people will do that seem assholish.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:49 AM on September 16, 2016

Men holding doors for women/gender-nonconforming people when it's not needed...

OMG YAAAS.

This is totally a thing with old white dudes in my building. It's maddening, because it's obvious that whoever is closest to the elevator door should go first, so I always wait for that, but then there's that weird pause and the smile and hand-gesture and then I have to go because if I make a deal out of who gets off the elevator first that's unreasonable but dudes get to make the decision all the time. And I don't want it to be a sexist/ageist thing but it's pretty much impossible to believe that it's not because ladies and young dudes do not do this thing to me.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:52 AM on September 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Frowner: To avoid as much potential akwardness, I do something similar sparklemotion suggested about pushing the door open harder so it doesn't slam in someone face. I hold it behind me, facing the way I was going, and do not look for acknowledgement. I'm not holding the door out of an attempt for kudos. I'm doing it because I don't want to let a door slam in someone's face, no matter who it is.
posted by SansPoint at 10:53 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

Sorry. I get a point for everyone that I hold the door for, or that I can get to smile back at me. So I am going to hold the door for you even if you are ten or fifteen paces away. Please don't hurry on my account. The longer you take the longer I get to delay going inside and getting back to work. You really don't have to break into a half-hearted shamble on my account. I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable. I'm trying to project patient, non-intrusive, relaxed body language as hard as I can, but that's the best I can do. I need that point.

I especially seem to make older white dudes uncomfortable when I do this for them...
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:53 AM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]

It's maddening, because it's obvious that whoever is closest to the elevator door should go first, so I always wait for that, but then there's that weird pause and the smile and hand-gesture and then

Something I've taken to doing is saying "oh no, chivalry's not dead" while making a sweeping gesture for them to go out the door with a big shiteating grin on my face.
posted by phunniemee at 10:59 AM on September 16, 2016

I don't know why, but I think it's really amusing that a post about being a jerk has descended into griping about well-intentioned people performing social courtesies wrong.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:00 AM on September 16, 2016 [40 favorites]

I'm probably one of those white males that's part of the problem more than the solution, but I got to tell you - the mental arithmetic of figuring out your comfortable walking speed vs the distance to the door I'm holding in my hand vs how much of an asshole you're going to think I am if you have to speed up to get to the door vs how much of an asshole you're going to think I am if it slams in your face is frigging exhausting.

Totally get that it's not your problem, but just so you know it's got nothing to do with your gender - I'm just socially awkward as hell.
posted by Mooski at 11:00 AM on September 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

For you, Don Pepino (and Frowner & others)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:00 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is it even remotely possible those old white dudes aren't actually singling less privileged people out to be excessively chivalrous, too, but are actually that annoyingly overaccommodating to everyone else, too, when you're not looking because a majority of "old white dudes" were socialized to hold doors for everybody?

Not all of them do it, it's very pointed and I never see them do it for cis men.

And I submit that the guys who called me a "women's libber" (in hostile tones, yet!) were not holding the doors for me out of friendliness but out of some kind of homosocial aggression deal.

What's more, as I've said elsewhere here, I've never gotten much attention of any kind from men....until I started dressing in a masculine manner and being very visibly queer/gender non-conforming. Now I get a surprising amount of hostility, usually from very "respectable looking" white men. They are hostile because my appearance suggests that I do not care what they think and am not interested in them sexually, and even in 2016 this offends them. And-and-and....in person I am gentle, meek, mild - a marshmallow bundle of apologies, basically. It's not as though I'm running around glaring at people and trampling on their toes.
posted by Frowner at 11:00 AM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

To follow-up: I composed that comment before people brought up gendered door-holding behavior. I'm not talking about that.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:02 AM on September 16, 2016

I don't know why, but I think it's really amusing that a post about being a jerk has descended into griping about well-intentioned people performing social courtesies wrong.

Well that makes sense, right? It makes us jerks for not appreciating their well intentioned* social courtesy**.

*dubious
**which somehow only extends to women
posted by phunniemee at 11:02 AM on September 16, 2016

Metafilter: well-intentioned people performing social courtesies wrong.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:03 AM on September 16, 2016 [17 favorites]

I try not to be that guy who holds the door/elevator an awkwardly long time, but otherwise, I'm definitely a pan-door-holderer. If for no other reason than it makes things seem to flow more smoothly for everyone.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:03 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also, there's a huge difference between gesturing me into the elevator first when we're all standing right there and hanging around while the elevator closes so that I can cross the lobby and get in first. If some older fellow wants me to go through a nearby door first, fine, sure, it's a little frustrating to have to be reminded that Gender Matters In The Workplace Whether You Like It Or Not, but I recognize that it's socialization.

Frankly, being singled out for "courtesy" because of your gender gets old. It goes right along with being singled out for discrimination and condescension. A place where the men constantly want to remind you that you're a laaaaaaaady (whether or not you actually are) is not as fun as a place where people can at least keep up the pretense that we're all equals.
posted by Frowner at 11:04 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I remember when I hit forty and had my first proper run-in with a chronic pain issue, my mom pointing out to me, "Maybe now you'll understand why old men get so cranky. They're in pain all the time."
the old man--me--responds: not or seldom the case...Many have chronic pain at early age.
Old people look about and see most if not all of their friends are dead or close to it or seriously ill...they are out of things...no work to busy themselves, a world changing fast that they are not used to...frequent visits to doctors...able to do much less than they once could...the promise of better world seems to have not come to pass, etc. etc...In sum: they know things the young will soon become aware of, and so the old are often dour, mean spirited, jaundiced.
posted by Postroad at 11:05 AM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I have to be honest, I don't really understand the point of worrying about whether or not you "are a jerk." It's not something that a person can be, inherently, it's a question of how they treat other people. If you ever feel inclined to question your nature in this way, it seems more productive to focus on being kind, helpful, respectful, warm, generous, etc. to other people (as circumstances and the nature of social connections merit). Spending emotional energy obsessing about yourself and how good or bad you are is an ironically misdirected endeavor if want to make sure you're not a jerk.
posted by clockzero at 11:07 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

The jerk I was thinking of was not the "chivalry" men perform for women, but more like people just sort of acting as though you are ruining their day just by existing. (See above re: comment about hating people engaging in a transaction at a farmer's market.) It's people like that that frighten me more.
posted by Kitteh at 11:09 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

A man holds the door for women, or waits to allow women to enter first, because that is an integral part of what respect to women meant when and where they were raised. No principled distinction in their behavior from whatever socially-conscious feminists in 2016 might try to instill in their adolescent sons as gestures of public respect to women, and which might seem quite out of date in 30 years, too.
posted by MattD at 11:09 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

DirtyOldTown: Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?

Went to Catholic school but am not Catholic. Was raised with "be a good person" values, though, and still can't help wanting to manifest them, even though they tend to yield the opposite of the kind of success that would set me up for the good vacations & biweekly foodie outings I'd like. Despite that, I'm often cynical, bitter, and just cranky for various reasons. Like maxsperber, expert dream-crusher/liability noticer; have lost faith in many important institutions. Jerk, tired, or grownup, can't decide.

ps I use "asshole" for anyone (including myself) & enjoy doing that.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:10 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

And...the other thing is that as sparklemotion points out, women are constantly expected to read social cues about little stuff like getting on the elevator. Men are not generally expected to think "hm, this person seems distracted or uncomfortable, perhaps I'll just get on the elevator myself instead of waiting", they're expected to decide whether or not they want to wait and then wait or not regardless.

A lot of times with the "chivalry" thing, I get really tired of trying to suss out the response that's desired - how much thanks am I supposed to thank? Is he going to use this behavior to start some kind of interaction with me? If he does, will it be creepy or will it be homophobic? How can I thank him politely enough that he doesn't get mad but not effusively enough to invite further interaction?

And again, with this subset of men who use exaggerated "chivalry" as a kind of aggression, you're always on the knife's edge - I get very uneasy around men who ostentatiously enact gendered courtesy because I've had that explode into MRA-ing several times.
posted by Frowner at 11:12 AM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

I try not to be the person standing there holding the door open while the person (of any gender) who I'm holding it for is still halfway across the parking lot, but sometimes I miscalculate and then what am I gonna do, close it again? (Sorry sucker, not fast enough!) I'd say that I make that mistake maybe five percent of the times that I hold the door open. And then there are the times when I try to hold a door open but because I misjudged which way it was going to swing I end up being more in the way than if I just hadn't bothered…

Anyway, if everyone else has a similar failure rate, there would be a pretty substantial amount of annoying door-holding behavior going on even if everyone was totally well-intentioned and just trying to be polite and show a little pan-human solidarity. So try not to get too annoyed when I'm standing there looking stupid while you do that awkward little hopping jog into the gas station store—I'm doing my best over here.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:13 AM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]

Two (unrelated) thoughts:

1. This article refers to evidence-based argument several times, but the bulk of it seems to be the author's morning-shower-musings.
2. There are a good number of people who, far from rationalizing their jerkiness away, actually consider being a jerk a point of pride.
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:14 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

i'm one of those people who, when someone a few feet away, running, yells "hold the elevator!" i almost always panic and press DOOR CLOSE instead of DOOR OPEN, although i have also panicpressed the alarm button at least half a dozen times. these days i just physically stand in the doorway instead of trying for a button and i assume this will lead to my dramatic and gruesome death by crushing.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:16 AM on September 16, 2016 [18 favorites]

Note, I'm not trying to deny that people are sometimes ill-intentioned about it. I totally get that that happens. I'm just saying that there are a lot of honest mistakes there too. Most of the time most people can probably tell the difference, but please don't assume I'm being a jerk if I, a man, am holding the door for you, a non-man, for what seems like an awkwardly long time. I may just be being awkward. In fact I am probably dying inside from awkwardness and want the whole thing to be over just as much as you do.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:16 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?

No, I just keep hearing about fun things my friends did together after the fact and wondering if I didn't get invited because there's something I'm doing that everyone is too polite to bring up.
posted by ckape at 11:17 AM on September 16, 2016

YOU'RE IN A ROOM WITH TEN OTHER PEOPLE. YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHICH ONE IS THE JERK!
posted by blue_beetle at 11:19 AM on September 16, 2016

also like 2-3 months ago i was sitting on a crowded 2 train and a latino lady was standing in front of me with her torso obscured by her enormous tote bag and i didn't realize until i got off the train that she was immensely pregnant and NO ONE had offered her their seat and i'd been sitting there brazenly in front of her for HALF AN HOUR and honestly if upon my death i am banished to hell for all eternity for this one act i will accept this as my monstrous due.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:19 AM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

these days i just physically stand in the doorway instead of trying for a button and i assume this will lead to my dramatic and gruesome death by crushing.

most efficient way to do it. i stick my arm out ,and feel like a total hero for it. narcissistic, absolutely. (am a compulsive door holder for others. but. am also canadian & fundamentally apologetic... may also just be learned behaviour.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:20 AM on September 16, 2016

everyone has an asshole and it is non-gendered, so maybe let's use that

Worst pickup line ever.
posted by bongo_x at 11:22 AM on September 16, 2016 [37 favorites]

Most of the time most people can probably tell the difference, but please don't assume I'm being a jerk if I, a man, am holding the door for you, a non-man, for what seems like an awkwardly long time

You know, this phrasing almost makes it seem like I'm....getting worked up over something that is almost always trivial. But surely that can't be the case, I would never, ever get worked up over something trivial, right?

Okay, I tell you what, I am convinced - with the exception of guys similar to those who called me a women's libber and were obviously creepy, I retract my concerns about door-holding.

I am going to take some deep breaths, maybe drink a nice glass of water, visualize relaxing scenes.
posted by Frowner at 11:22 AM on September 16, 2016 [8 favorites]

Previously
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:23 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Since we're discussing elevator behavior... the building I work in has four floors, 1-4, no basement or lobby level below. On the second floor is a busy dentist's office. Literally every single time I'm taking the elevator down and the elevator picks someone up going down from two, they push the button for one. Like, where the fuck did you think I was going? Did you think was I just like, a fucking elevator enthusiast and I was just hanging out here?

Before you reply, please recall that I have already stipulated I am a jerk.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:24 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

This is neither here nor there but I end up holding the door at my building a lot because it's full of old people (read: a lot of elderly widows). Anyway I spend half the time holding the door conveying to little old ladies that they do not need to rush because if I was in a rush I wouldn't be holding the door open.

If I did not hold the door open for little old ladies headed for the door regardless of their distance from the door, both my grandmothers would set aside their differences and simultaneously rise from their graves to smack me on the head just like they did when I was young and tried to get on the bus before little old ladies.
posted by griphus at 11:25 AM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]

The thing about chivalry is that of course most dudes are not ill intentioned about it, but that doesn't make it any less awkward and othering.

So it's not like I assume that the elevator dudes (or even the extended door holders) are jerks , it's more that their behavior is the behavior that I would take if I wanted to be a jerk. So it's jarring, but obviously not life-ruiningly so.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:25 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, many elevators I have used if you press a floor button and the door sensor is clear then the elevator will assume that it's picked up whoever called it to that floor and will start to head on, where if no one presses the button it will linger until some internal timer runs out.
posted by ckape at 11:29 AM on September 16, 2016

I know I'm not a jerk because people at work stop in the middle of the stairs to look at their phones, and I have never pushed a single one of them down.
posted by AFABulous at 11:33 AM on September 16, 2016 [28 favorites]

Around here everyone holds the door for everyone, there's no gender thing involved. And I mean 99.9% or the time. Other men hold the door for me and let me go through first. It's just a thing around here.

I can assert that this is definitely true here, because I am transgender and just as many men hold the door for me after transition as before (as do women). So it's not chivalry.
posted by AFABulous at 11:35 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I am a door holder, if you're within a reasonable distance.

What I do hate is the INSISTENCE that because I am a woman, I must pass through the door first. The neat thing about my office building (and lots of office buildings really) is that the entrance to the building has 2 doors, so if a man holds the first door for me, I can tell if he's being that "chivalry" kind of asshole if he has a problem with me holding the second door for him. I've only met one person who has INSISTED that I go through the 2nd door before him, and he was gay so I don't know what that means. Most other men think it's cute that I'm holding the door for them instead of recognizing the courtesy of repaying the door holding through the first door.
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:38 AM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

You ever wonder if the "Close Door" button actually does anything? Many people suppose it's just a fake, there to taunt you. I actually know the answer to this!

A guy in my neighborhood repairs elevators for a living and he said that yes, it's a real button. BUT it's not your imagination: very often it does nothing at all. The reason is that, when the electronic switch behind one of the buttons dies, it's common practice, instead of paying for a new one, to have the repair tech swap it out with the "Close Door" button, since that one isn't entirely necessary.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:39 AM on September 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

The whole side conversation about elevators reminds me of a couple of things. We have a regular patient who commonly comes to the hospital with his grandmother. A few years ago she was riding up in the elevator and another woman was running to catch it—and she didn't hold the door. Whether on purpose or just didn't get to it in time I don't know. Well, for whatever reason the doors opened up before the elevator left the floor, and the other woman made a sarcastic remark to the grandmother as she got on the elevator. Things quickly escalated and the next thing security had been called to quell this shouting match between two women in an elevator. So now whenever I see his name on the schedule I wonder if his grandmother got in a fight with anyone today.

Also, in a hospital you can always tell who the surgeons are on an elevator. They don't want to risk injuring their hands by using them to hold the doors open, so they stick their head between the doors instead.
posted by TedW at 11:39 AM on September 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

I don't care what the article says, when I am driving, I am indeed surrounded by jerks.
posted by TedW at 11:40 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

YOU'RE IN A ROOM WITH TEN OTHER PEOPLE. YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHICH ONE IS THE JERK!

Well, I hadn't even noticed the 10 other people, and I just farted and burped (both audibly) at the same time, so I guess that answers that question.
posted by ambrosen at 11:42 AM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I don't really think about holding doors open I just do it. If I've opened a door and someone is nearby and approaching I'll hold the door. The only thing about the other person that matters in this is if it appears like they're at an appropriate distance and bearing for me to hold the door.

I used to hold elevators but I read an editorial (most likely on the Guardian) about things the British writer found different about living in the USA and one of the things was that people would hold elevator doors open like it was the last one at the US Embassy during the Vietnam War. I was instantly convinced that holding elevators for people was pointless and will only do it now if it would otherwise close in the other person's face. By the same token if I am going to take an elevator but see that people have entered and would have to hold it a while for me to get on then I'll purposely slow down so that I'm not near enough for them to hold it for me.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:43 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Around here everyone holds the door for everyone, there's no gender thing involved. And I mean 99.9% or the time. Other men hold the door for me and let me go through first. It's just a thing around here.

I can assert that this is definitely true here, because I am transgender and just as many men hold the door for me after transition as before (as do women). So it's not chivalry.

Same around here. People just seem to do it for anyone and everyone. Possibly a regional thing? Another polite Canadian thing maybe?
posted by Jalliah at 11:43 AM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I can assert that this is definitely true here, because I am transgender and just as many men hold the door for me after transition as before (as do women). So it's not chivalry.

My mother insisted that I hold the door open for anybody if they were close enough to get whacked in the face as it closed. That's not chivalry, that's just common courtesy. I don't want to get whacked in the face by a door.

I think the problem with activities like that is more if a person draws attention to it in the hope of a cookie. We shouldn't do decent things for cookies, we should just do them and go about our day.

Me, too, maxsparber. I'm all right a lot of the time, but I've noticed I become an unbearable person any time I have to wait for something.

Yeah, that all sounds pretty familiar.

I normally curb my darker impulses, but waiting strains that badly, as does fatigue. I have reduced my overall appearance of jerkiness by having something to keep my hands busy when I am stuck with nothing to do, (I carry origami paper to waiting rooms, etc.), and I try to plan to not be tired around... anybody? Heh. Still working out the kinks in that one.
posted by mordax at 11:47 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm thinking "shut up shut up stop talking folksily to the farmer shut up get out of the way aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh getoutofthewaygetoutoftheway, I want the peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeas, get your hands off them, NOOOOO, don't take out your empty egg cartons that you have virtuously saved for the farmer for your tencenteach discount, NOOOO don't buy eggs, they have to go into the cooler for eggs and it's way over there AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaAAAAAaaagh!!!"

1. I was like this until I started on meds. Life is much more pleasant now.

2. This man beside us also has a hard fight with an unfavouring world, with strong temptations, with doubts and fears, with wounds of the past which have skinned over, but which smart when they are touched. It is a fact, however surprising. And when this occurs to us we are moved to deal kindly with him, to bid him be of good cheer, to let him understand that we are also fighting a battle; we are bound not to irritate him, nor press hardly upon him nor help his lower self.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:48 AM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

everyone has an asshole and it is non-gendered, so maybe let's use that

I prefer 'jackass' because it seems less crassly anatomical and more dismissive and demeaning. I've heard of people thinking it sounds cool and tough to be the biggest asshole in the room, but it seems harder to be proud of being the biggest jackass.

And it's just more fun to say.
posted by straight at 11:49 AM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

A jerk slams a door in someone's face. They don't hold it open pointedly. That's passive aggressive. Jerks aren't passive aggressive.

I like obnoxious people, but generally obnoxious people aren't jerks, either. They just say what they think and don't care.
posted by Peach at 11:50 AM on September 16, 2016

Jerks aren't passive aggressive.

You would say something like that, wouldn't you?
posted by griphus at 11:52 AM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I feel like it's weird and possibly-probably jerkish when people wave you into the elevator before them when you're standing at the other end of the line. I mean if you're trying to be polite, why would you not just enter the elevator and hold the door? Making the other person precede you makes no sense unless it's some kind of chivalrous/passive-agressive "After you m'lady!" act.

Though I will concede that with older men, it may have just been what they were taught was polite, and there may be no actual ill intent. They would probably do well to update their manners to reflect modern ideas of gender equality, but (as griphus points out above) it can be hard to stop doing a thing that you were taught from an early age was the Right Thing To Do.

I could even see them internally congratulating themselves on being polite to a woman (according to their own standards) despite her not-traditionally-feminine presentation. By their own lights, they're being forward-thinking about a woman's right to be treated respectfully regardless of how she chooses to dress. It's just that they're still using kind of a fucked-up standard of politeness.

Or they're being jerks. It's definitely possible! I'm sure that's a thing, because being overly polite as a deniable form of aggression is something people do all the time. I'm not trying to pass judgement on any individual cases, just trying to explain what I think may be going on in some of these dudes' heads.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:54 AM on September 16, 2016

Article: If you think everyone around you is a jerk, then you might be a jerk.
Mefites: OMG all these JERKS around me holding DOORS for me in a manner that I don't like!

The inevitable conclusion is left as an exercise to the Mefite.
posted by Vatnesine at 11:55 AM on September 16, 2016 [17 favorites]

"Everyone's a jerk. You, me, this jerk. That's my philosophy."—Bender

I'll plead guilty, too. I go through every day wondering what I unwittingly fucked up and grieving that I'll never know for sure. I don't know how a person can be self-aware enough to know the difference between being a jerk and simply being unlikable for reasons outside their moral control.
posted by Flexagon at 11:56 AM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

I am absolutely a jerk. If someone pulling up to a junction where I want to cross the road stops to let me cross ahead of them when there is no other traffic, I'll glare at them and wait for them to move. If they don't, I'll demonstratively walk a big semi circle around behind their car. Like come on dude, pull up to the junction and I can cross behind you, there's no need to perform this pointless bit of courtesy because you're not making things any easier for me, just slowing yourself up and effectively rushing me. Check your mirrors - if there's no other traffic, it's faster for everyone if you just go past.

(Yes I will occasionally do similar things when people hold the door for me in a way I don't like the look of - hell yes I'm stopping dead two meters from the door to reply to a text or something, just go about your day and don't force me to interact with you.)
posted by Dysk at 11:57 AM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah that really bothers me too, but mostly for energy consumption reasons. Like it costs no energy for me to sit and wait for the car to go but it costs the car a little gas, so just trying to consume the least amount of energy, the car should go first. But I think if this was applied to everyone and not just me then people would be getting hit by cars way more than they are now.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:05 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I am absolutely a jerk. If someone pulling up to a junction where I want to cross the road stops to let me cross ahead of them when there is no other traffic, I'll glare at them and wait for them to move

(I actually started doing this during the couple years I was on crutches where the being rushed was both a genuine issue, and people performing pointless courtesies like this - that made me feel like an object in other people's pat-self-on-back thoughtless moments - was much more common. Back then if I was in an especially bad mood, I'd nod to thank the driver as sarcastically as I could manage, then cross the road in front of them so. fucking. slowly, making them sit and wait for ages. You inconvenience me purely to make yourself feel better asshole, I'm going to do the same.)
posted by Dysk at 12:07 PM on September 16, 2016

Dysk: You let the car go first when you're trying to cross the street? That is the opposite of jerk. I'm an aggressive, jerk-y pedestrian. If you don't stop before the crosswalk, when I have the light, you damn well better expect to get a death stare. This goes double if you're trying to turn while I'm crossing the street with the light. Unless you got a lady having a baby in the back seat, you can wait ten seconds for me to finish crossing before you finish turning. (If I'm jaywalking, then all bets are off, of course. I know my place.)

This might be because I'm a city boy, and I do a lot of walking in dense, intersection-heavy areas. If you live in a different environment, I guess I could see being more deferential to cars, but think about it this way. Not only do the laws say that the pedestrian has the right of way at a crosswalk (with the light), but the person in the car is protected by a ton of metal and glass. You're a squishy, flesh thing, with no protection. They should defer to you.
posted by SansPoint at 12:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

(The situation I'm describing is like a t-junction, where I'm walking along the main street, the walk a couple of car lengths down the joining street to cross, and a car - rather than pull up to the junction, which is past where I'm crossing - will pull up two car lengths short of the junction, wait for me, then pull two car lengths forward in order to stop again and wait for a gap in traffic. There is no designated crossing in this scenario.

I also do things like cross busy but slow-trafficed streets - think typical snak British town centre roads - by catching an approaching driver's eye, nodding, and just stepping out into the road in front of them, having effectively forced an agreement or their acknowledgement of my crossing on them unilaterally, so I completely reject the idea that I'm not a jerk as a pedestrian.)
posted by Dysk at 12:17 PM on September 16, 2016

the entrance to the building has 2 doors, so if a man holds the first door for me, I can tell if he's being that "chivalry" kind of asshole if he has a problem with me holding the second door for him.

THIS. I am a girl-person, but if I am the first one to the door, I am a door-holder person. Nothing makes me angrier than the guys who stop and take the door from me to hold it for me, when I am already holding it for them. You just made the whole door-through-going take longer and I was already doing the work! Where is there any chivalry left?

Usually I call them on this and get the follow-up dirty looks, so WHO'S THE JERK NOW?! (unclear)
posted by Mchelly at 12:17 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]

I hold the elevator door sometimes for my coworkers because (a) we're on the 20th floor and (b) I earn social credits that way.

It's always hilarious when I get to the office door first. I unlock it and hold it open for whoever's behind me. (I'm security, I get to do this.) Women-folk: "thank you!" and breeze on through. Men-folk: do a little dance about how I should go first, eventually capitulate, look nervous the entire time.
posted by XtinaS at 12:19 PM on September 16, 2016

If someone pulling up to a junction where I want to cross the road stops to let me cross ahead of them when there is no other traffic, I'll glare at them and wait for them to move.

That's...not a good way to encourage drivers to acknowledge that pedestrians exist. I do this as a driver, and when I'm the pedestrian I wave thanks and cross at my normal speed. Social anxiety has never been a big issue for me, however.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:20 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Dysk (The situation I'm describing is like a t-junction, where I'm walking along the main street, the walk a couple of car lengths down the joining street to cross, and a car - rather than pull up to the junction, which is past where I'm crossing - will pull up two car lengths short of the junction, wait for me, then pull two car lengths forward in order to stop again and wait for a gap in traffic. There is no designated crossing in this scenario.

This... makes no sense to me. I guess it's just American driving aggression, or at least Northeastern US Driving Aggression, 'cause NOBODY would stop in the middle of a street here to let someone cross. It's hard enough to get people to stop at stop signs.
posted by SansPoint at 12:22 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is neither here nor there but I end up holding the door at my building a lot because it's full of old people (read: a lot of elderly widows).

Hold-me-touch-me, where is Hold-me-touch-me....
posted by beerperson at 12:26 PM on September 16, 2016

this press conference is over
posted by griphus at 12:37 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm in a bit of the world now where there's some fairly ostentatious door-holding. I worry about being the jerk in this situation because I don't tend to stand, arm outstretched, waiting for everyone to go through the door (I'm more a low-key delay-the-door-closure-while-facing-front guy). To be honest, I just hope that I generally try to be decent and that the times when I do the jerk-ish thing are distantly-enough spaced that they get written off as foibles rather than my inherent nature.

One of the most stark literary portrayals of the jerk, for me, is Bruce Robertson in Irvine Welsh's Filth. I don't know if it came across as strongly in the film but I think the constant judging of others as wanting (which justifies being on the offensive) is what defines the character. It's written in first-person, and he is surrounded by jerks!
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 12:39 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's written in first-person, and he is surrounded by jerks!

Except those interludes from the POV of Bruce's tapeworm, which is literally surrounded by jerk.
posted by adept256 at 12:47 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

> I know I'm a jerk. It takes everything I can to suppress it all the time, and then I have to blow off steam every so often.

BRING BACK ASTRO ZOMBIE 3
posted by languagehat at 12:57 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

where if no one presses the button it will linger
Yeah, the elevators in my apartment building are set up so that the floor buttons close the elevator doors, and now in other elevators I'm the person who hits "Lobby" even when it's already lit up, which used to annoy me when other people did it. It would never have occurred to me as an explanation for that behavior until my elevators trained me into it, and it's sort of helped me generalize to the idea that there may be reasonable explanations of other people's annoying behavior that I just haven't thought of.

I take busy elevators lots of times a day, and for a while I (female, gender-conforming but not particularly femme) experimented with pushing back on gendered elevator entrance/exit courtesy behavior - if a dude closer to the door tried to get me to exit first, I'd politely gesture that he should just go. Some men - a minority - happily acceded. The modal response was to double down and get in a battle of wills, which was a pain in the ass and delayed everyone's exit from the elevator, which was mostly why I stopped. A small but not tiny minority lashed out with unpleasant misogynist invective, which was also why I stopped.
posted by yarrow at 1:00 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Just checking with the people who constantly worry they're jerks: were you folks raised Catholic too, by any chance?

Fundamentalist evangelical. I have gone through an evolution in jerkitude. As a kid, I was the designated family jerk because I was always calling out my parents on their abuse and would say "no" to stuff I knew was unfair and also call the police on my physically abusive uncle, as well as telling off priests in front of the congregation. I have no idea where I found the presence of mind to tell priests stuff like "I don't believe you, Jesus would never want us to hate anyone," but eh. It wasn't entirely angelic, okay, this will become clear in the evolution.

As a university student I became a moderately-jerky sort in reaction to that upbrining, of the "rationality is where it's at" type but thankfully witnessed enough jerkitude on that side of things that I was like, "um, this is jerkish."

Young adulthood was marked by a blissful ambivalence wrt religious matters and the jerkitude of being a naive young'un who thought everything about the world could be understood. It did at least grant me empathy now that I'm a decade past it so when I meet kids like that I can just sigh and know that life will balance it all out for them.

My thirties I started to realize that telling people off because I felt-no-KNEW strongly they were WRONG was not in fact a constructive way of building everyday relationships. This realization was able to happen because I was no longer in a context where my own existence was WRONG ALL THE TIME, but merely questionable most of the time, being a woman and all that. Singlehood meant I could at least turn that shit off when alone, and that was pretty instrumental.

I'm still occasionally blunt with people and trying to calibrate that because if it's jerky to someone, that's not cool... unless they're a jerk... but so many people aren't actually, they're just operating on what they've grown up with and experienced in life. (Which is not to excuse terrible behavior, just put it into a context where it's easier to react with a more moderate approach. Genuine jerks are unlikely to change because someone reacted jerkily to them, after all. Witnessed that my whole childhood, damn.)
posted by fraula at 1:06 PM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

MetaFilter: there may be reasonable explanations of other people's annoying behavior that I just haven't thought of.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:14 PM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]

I assumed the five dollar fee was the jerk filter here, therefore none of us is a jerk.

Or else we all are.

My life is actually rather nice right now, in terms of a low jerk-interaction ratio. I'm going to enjoy it as long as it stays that way.

It's funny in raising a kid, you have to be tolerant of their intolerance till they are able to grow out of it. Pre-adolescents are black and white thinkers, and nuance is tough and scary for them. So when someone acts jerky and I'm being all "eh, that woman's probably having a bad day," he's all "MOM THAT LADY IS TERRIBLE SHE SHOULD GO TO JAIL."
posted by emjaybee at 1:14 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]

For various reasons, I'm in my local Home Depot these days at least once every weekend, and sometimes two or three times over the weekend. The outside vendor solar panel sales guys are set up in main aisle on the way to the checkout lines. Every. damn. time I'm in the store and I walk past their table I encounter an aggressively friendly "How are you today, miss? Can I ask you a question?"

And the answer is No. No, you cannot ask me a question. I indicate "no you cannot ask me a question" by shaking my head and giving them a little wave that unequivocally says NO. Probably about two-thirds of the time, as I'm walking away, I hear one of them say, dripping with sarcasm, "Well it was good talking to you, miss. Have a great afternoon." And I know what that is. That's a behind-the-back accusation of jerkitude.

But you know what? Fine. That is a situation in which I don't mind being labeled as or taken for a jerk. I have a sign on my door at home that says "No Soliciting," and I am 100% serious about it. I don't feel like I should also have to wear a "No Solicitors" badge on my shirt while I'm walking through the hardware store. My stance on this may be extreme, and I own that, but people approaching me and trying to sell me something actually angers me. It feels like an invasion, and I don't like it, and for me it falls into the category of no-you-don't-have-the-RIGHT-to-impose-this-interaction-on-me, so I'm pretty firm about deflecting the interaction. And to the solar panel guys, that makes me a jerk.

But you know what? I'm not. I am totally not a jerk. Last week I went to the drive-thru ATM at my bank and had to wait in line. When the car ahead of me pulled away and I pulled up to the machine, the screen said "Would you like another transaction?" The person in front of me not only left their card in the machine, they didn't close their transaction. A jerk would have helped themselves to some money. I, not a jerk, pressed No, got their card, parked, and then went into the lobby and waited in line for 10 minutes so I could give the card to a teller (and explain why I had it, making sure the teller realized I != jerk).

I think I'm a good person. I try to do the right thing, and I try to be kind to people. I'm also nearing the end of a divorce, meaning I am also finally nearing the official end of that relationship, in which I was often accused of being a jerk, and where the words "You're a jerk!" were often screamed at me. I know I'm not a jerk. I know that though I was definitely imperfect in that imperfect relationship, I was never actually, or at least regularly, "a jerk."

But the thing is, accusations of jerkdom are so easily weaponized. I'm having to learn how not to doubt myself, and to believe in the parts of me I know are good instead of focusing on the parts of me other people say are bad. It's hard, and as women we're conditioned to do the opposite. It's not that we're conditioned to not be jerks -- we're conditioned not to be seen as a jerk. That way lies doormat territory.

So the solar dudes can snipe behind my back all they want. And the next time someone I'm in a relationship with yells at me that I'm a jerk, I'm out. I read that whole article and this whole thread and I think I'm okay. If the jerk store calls, I'm going to tell them they have the wrong number and hang up, dammit.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:26 PM on September 16, 2016 [15 favorites]

At different times in my life, I would have been proud to say that I am jerk. However, this is not one of those years. This seems pretty closely tied in with how valued I feel in my job and my personal life. Now I am just proud to say that I can be a jerk when it is needed and am not so concerned about what someone who is being a jerk will think of me. I can say no to salespeople and charity-pushers without guilt now. I will probably not move out of the way if you are walking towards me in the wrong lane. I will gladly give you directions, but ignore you if I think you are asking me for money or trying to hit on me. Being raised evangelical, wanting to make the world a better place and being an introvert with social anxiety, I struggled with a lot of that in my twenties.

Fellow Mefites, thank you for always reminding me that the weird door/elevator interactions I have with strangers are not unique and that I am not alone in overthinking them and/or deciding that said stranger is a total jerk and also worrying that I am actually the total jerk.
posted by soelo at 1:28 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Seconding everyone doing it here, to the point where I expect it as a basic social nicety. I actually got a little subconsciously annoyed yesterday when a woman didn't take the half second to hold a door open for me even though I was right behind her and she had seen me. "Rude!" my brain said. Even though this is all silly.
posted by naju at 1:28 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

people approaching me and trying to sell me something actually angers me
I could not agree more! I see the sign and the table and their eager look. If I was interested, I would have stopped.
posted by soelo at 1:40 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

ITT, all the pointies. All the rounds are busy out being jerks.
posted by numaner at 1:40 PM on September 16, 2016

You jerk-worriers may not be Catholics but y'all confess like you are.
posted by GuyZero at 1:44 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I live in a 1930s town the economic engine of which is entirely drug store soda fountains

Hey, that sounds pretty sweet
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:44 PM on September 16, 2016

I was on a plane and some gentlemanly dude paid me some kindness (I don't even remember what) and bragged "See, chivalry's not dead" and I said "No, but maybe someday it will be small enough that we can drown it in a bathtub". I might be a jerk.
posted by stinker at 1:52 PM on September 16, 2016 [14 favorites]

The Douglas Adams cookies story seems relevant here.
posted by Artw at 1:53 PM on September 16, 2016 [12 favorites]

My stance on this may be extreme, and I own that, but people approaching me and trying to sell me something actually angers me.

FWIW, I don't consider your stance at all extreme. Also, I would totally wear a "No Solicitors" shirt full-time.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:54 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

Nothing makes me angrier than the guys who stop and take the door from me to hold it for me, when I am already holding it for them.

are you fucking kidding me, i'd fight them right then and there without even the courtesy of a glove slap and a second arranging the bout
posted by poffin boffin at 2:15 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

I am absolutely a jerk. If someone pulling up to a junction where I want to cross the road stops to let me cross ahead of them when there is no other traffic, I'll glare at them and wait for them to move.

Wow, you're making the world worse for everybody. The only safe thing is consistency and obeying the traffic laws. Since the driver has no way to know that you're a weirdo who wants the driver to break the law so that you can feel more comfortable crossing the road at your own pace, the driver has to stop because YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY, YOU JERK!
posted by straight at 2:18 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm not a jerk, but I play one on the internet.

Seriously, sometimes I can be a real jerk while being fully aware of my jerkitude. And in real life too. Because sometimes the ~~only~~ easiest way of dealing with some obnoxious asshole is to forget for a moment that they are just as human as I am and may have a terrible day and valid reasons to behave the way they do.

I learned not to do this while driving though.
posted by hat_eater at 2:21 PM on September 16, 2016

This seems like a good excuse to post this again:

sonder
n. The realization that everyone has a story.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:21 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

"If everyone around you is an asshole, it's not them - it's you."

It is entirely possible to be surrounded by assholes. You may have inadvertently found yourself at an asshole convention.
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:27 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

(The situation I'm describing is like a t-junction, where I'm walking along the main street, the walk a couple of car lengths down the joining street to cross, and a car - rather than pull up to the junction, which is past where I'm crossing - will pull up two car lengths short of the junction, wait for me, then pull two car lengths forward in order to stop again and wait for a gap in traffic. There is no designated crossing in this scenario.

Sorry, Dysk, I take back my all caps ranting and point it at THE JERK DRIVER THAT IS DISOBEYING THE TRAFFIC LAWS IN AN UNPREDICTABLE MANNER AND EXPECTING YOU TO READ THEIR MIND AND DO THE SAME. That's like jerk drivers when I'm on a bike who stop when they have the right of way as if I'm a pedestrian at a crosswalk waiting for me to cross, not realizing that traffic coming the other way isn't stopping because they're treating me like the cyclist that I am.

I usually just give up, get off my bike, and cross at the crosswalk like a pedestrian. Defeated by jerks.
posted by straight at 2:27 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

"...Are you surrounded by fools and non-entities, by people with bad taste and silly desires, by boring people undeserving of your attention, by people who can be understood quickly by applying a broad and negative brush—creeps, stuck-up snobs, bubbleheaded party kids, smug assholes, and, indeed, jerks?"

Sometimes? Definitely on the Number 9 Bus.

"If this is how the world regularly looks to you, then I have bad news. Likely, you are the jerk. This is not how the world looks to most people, and it is not how the world actually is. You have a distorted vision. You are not seeing the individuality and potential of the people around you."

Oh oh.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:28 PM on September 16, 2016

I can't wait for the day that doors you have to hold open are replaced by IoT-enabled sliding doors.

No thank you
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:32 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

And the answer is No. No, you cannot ask me a question. I indicate "no you cannot ask me a question" by shaking my head and giving them a little wave that unequivocally says NO. Probably about two-thirds of the time, as I'm walking away, I hear one of them say, dripping with sarcasm, "Well it was good talking to you, miss. Have a great afternoon." And I know what that is. That's a behind-the-back accusation of jerkitude.

Next time, just cock an eyebrow as you stride past the solar guys and say your arcology is already on cold fusion.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:35 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah, but then doors are assholes, not people.

And that's before Sirius Cybernetics even starts messing with them!
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:43 PM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]

I know I'm not a jerk because people at work stop in the middle of the stairs to look at their phones, and I have never pushed a single one of them down.

Maybe you should do. It's the only way they'll learn.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:46 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

"How are you today, miss? Can I ask you a question?"

My answer to this is always, "No, thanks!" With a BIG! SMILE!

This usually confuses them.

Yes, I am probably a jerk.
posted by BrashTech at 3:05 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah, but then doors are assholes, not people.

No, that's a few steps further when our bioengineering advances to the point we start growing buildings.
posted by ckape at 3:17 PM on September 16, 2016

More Human than Human ...Jerks.
posted by Artw at 3:20 PM on September 16, 2016

This describes Seinfeld perfectly
posted by wemayfreeze at 3:50 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

sweetheart goggles—goggles that make especially vivid the value, interest, importance, and specialness of the people around you

I would fund this kickstarter.
posted by langtonsant at 4:26 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

There is a specific kind of gendered door holding that is far more about LOOK AT ME, BEIN NICE TO THE LADY than it is about holding the door open for another person.

There's also a fun kind that is a way for the dude to stare at your ass and dudes you might think we don't know but yes, we know.

I get far more of the latter than the former these days, but they are both very tiresome and obvious.

If you've never seen a dude get huffy if there's a set of doors and you get to the second set before he does, which makes it clear it's not courtesy but a gendered performance congratulations I guess?
posted by winna at 5:00 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]

I know we've mostly moved on from elevators, but man I've had some awkward interactions in elevators due to weird gender behavior expectations.

The dudes essentially forcing women to go in/out first is a big one. It's so inefficient, especially when the elevator is crowded and I'm towards the back, yet you stand there, arm awkardly outstretched to keep the door from closing as I navigate my way through a herd of men and past you standing there half in the way. And frankly, sometimes I don't *want* to be first out the elevator with you able to follow me. Obviously that's not something I'm concerned about at work but don't men understand that in certain situations we'd rather have you in front where we can see you?

Some of the biggest problems stem from the fact that at the end of the day I'm often going down to the lower level to change into my bike clothes and ride home, but men assume I'm getting off at the lobby with everyone else. It becomes a whole song and dance with them trying to force me to get off the elevator first and then i have to explain no thanks, I'm not getting off here and I just hate it.

This is not at all gendered, but sometimes people getting on the elevator on lower floors assume I've pressed 1 when I actually pressed LL, and that's always a conundrum. I've not said anything (maybe they are going to LL too!) and turns out they are going to 1 and I feel bad for not giving them a heads-up that the elevator wasn't going to stop where they expected it to. But then one time I did say something, and the guy got all huffy "I know where I'm going" and I remain completely unclear on what to do in such situations.
posted by misskaz at 5:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

sometimes people getting on the elevator on lower floors assume I've pressed 1 when I actually pressed LL

Do the buttons light up somehow? If so, my own feeling is that the issue comes under the heading "Their Problem, Not My Responsibility" (that's the more civil phrase for it, inside my head it's a bit more strongly worded). If the buttons don't light up so that passengers know which floors have been selected, (a) that's poor UI design and (b) they should be perfectly capable of pushing their button themselves, and if they just assume then let 'em suffer the really rather minor consequences. If you're feeling extra helpful, a casually polite "What floor?" is realistically sufficient. Or cultivate the habit of standing as far away as possible from the button panel so you don't have to feel the pressure of captaining the device when someone else gets on.
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:56 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

(I apologize for ManSplaining™, I just got really tired of being everyone's caretaker at some point in my life so now it's easy for me to get into rant mode about People Who Should Bloody Well Be A Grownup and Do Things Their Own Damn Selves.)
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:01 PM on September 16, 2016

(I mean, it's one thing to be civil to each other in public situations, but there's a limit, y'know? I'm shutting up now.)
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:02 PM on September 16, 2016

Another related concept is the concept of the asshole, as explored recently by the philosopher Aaron James of the University of California, Irvine. On James’s theory, assholes are people who allow themselves to enjoy special advantages over others out of an entrenched sense of entitlement.

From The Journal of Asshole Studies.

Studying assholes...I want that job, but I guess we all do it daily for free.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:06 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is my most favorite metafilter since I don't know when! ya'll are awesome.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:49 PM on September 16, 2016

Aw! You're a sweetheart!
posted by naju at 6:54 PM on September 16, 2016

I tried to evaluate myself, and depending on which approach I choose, I could equally be either a jerk or a sweetheart. I think it's possible I'm such a sweetheart that I end up being a jerk.
posted by naju at 8:15 PM on September 16, 2016

I'll usually hold the door open for people, but my metric for choosing is basically "if I don't hold the door open, is the alternative to just let it go and swing back and hit them in the face?" It's more like trying to avoid doing something obnoxious than doing something positively good for someone else. I'll also hold the door open for anyone with a pram or a stroller.

It seems like in the last 5-10 years there has been a definite shift from convenient Star-Trek automatic sliding doors on almost all department stores and supermarkets to heavy glass double doors that swing shut if you let them go, and make it extremely difficult to navigate them on your own with a stroller (especially a twin stroller). You have to step in front, swing it open and either jump back and run through before it swings shut, or hold it open with your foot and pull the stroller through from the front. What's going on with this? Is it some kind of energy saving thing? Needless to say, I'm suitably grateful to anyone who holds the door open in this situation.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 9:36 PM on September 16, 2016

At least once a week I will find myself suddenly on the ground floor on an elevator, perhaps absorbed in a book or a podcast, and I will look up, and two or three dudes will just be

STARING

AT

ME

and like, apparently, just waiting with absolute baited fucking breath for THE FEMALE to exit the elevator so that they might be free to pass, and it's like

bros

just

just get off the fucking elevator

I am not generating a force field which prevents you from exiting the godforsaken elevator

just

just LEAVE THE ELEVATOR

and then I myself will leave when I am good and goddamn ready

ugh

UGH
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:46 PM on September 16, 2016 [7 favorites]

The Douglas Adams cookies story seems relevant here.

i can't remember 100% where it was, but i suspect it was right here on mefi, although it could've been an awkward irl interaction - someone told the train biscuit story as though it had happened to them, or to a friend of theirs, and it took all my strength not to be like dude, no, everyone here knows this story didn't happen to you or your "friend" and we're all embarrassed for you, but i did it, i was not the jerk

until now
posted by poffin boffin at 10:40 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]

On the second floor is a busy dentist's office. Literally every single time I'm taking the elevator down and the elevator picks someone up going down from two, they push the button for one.

The jerky behaviour here isn't pressing the button, it is taking the elevator one floor and stealing precious seconds of the lives of everyone in the elevator. Unless elderly or disabled, use the fukkin stairs, ya lazy jerk!
posted by raider at 7:07 AM on September 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

In my office building that is not even a possibility- opening the stairwell doors on any floor triggers a fire alarm.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:25 AM on September 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Uh oh. Lately, one of my mantras has been "you know, I'm nice, but I'm not that nice" in response to what I perceive as others trying to get priority for their needs over mine.

But maybe I'm not nice at all...
posted by rpfields at 8:12 AM on September 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Liz, point taken but I'm guessing you work in a building larger than four stories with no lobby or basement/parking. We all know these mixed-use buildings. I will bet my very soul there is a perfectly accessible stairwell right beside the elevators in the building described.
posted by raider at 2:10 PM on September 17, 2016

Oh my god, I live in constant fear of being a jerk, and I'm constantly walking away from the smallest interactions going over it in my head to be like "was that rude and I didn't realize it?" Hundreds of times a day. Even if I think maybe it would be unfair for someone to think I'm a jerk over something, I still agonize over it and try to judge how much that person hates me now.

So now, thanks to this thread, I have no idea if people have been thinking I was a jerk for, like, letting them leave the elevator first. I wasn't being chivalrous, I just thought it would be nice!

There was a period in my life when I was actually very scared to leave the house, and this is why. I don't even like commenting here. People always say that if you worry about being a jerk you probably aren't one, but man, there are so many little things that just set people off, and not everyone knows they're doing something wrong.

On the plus side, people sometimes think it's sort of charming when you're constantly being a neurotic weirdo. Everyone I've ever dated has told me they thought I was cute in that way. So, uh, I've got that going for me?
posted by teponaztli at 2:42 PM on September 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

Also instructive: I hold doors and stuff for men and women, but I guess most people wouldn't know that, so it probably looks like I'm being some kind of m'lady guy half the time. Now I just don't know what to do. Oh my goddddd
posted by teponaztli at 2:49 PM on September 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Many men hold doors for me but do not seem like m'lady guys. I think part of it is that it's very casual and not ostentatious - if I'm fifteen feet away they don't bother. Part of it is that if I gesture them to go ahead, they go instead of doubling down. Part of it is that it's never ridiculous behavior, like shuffling around so that I have to go into the elevator first even though I'm at the back of the group waiting for the elevator.

Basically, guys who hold doors should do what women do - read social cues. Many times women feel better (and this AFAB person feels better) having strange men, especially groups of men, in front of us where we can see them rather than lurking around behind our backs. If someone hesitates, let them hesitate. Move on.

I do think, though, that we all have to accept that sometimes people will think we're being jerks when we're doing our best - and not even because people are being especially judgmental but because our actions are ambiguous. For instance, I always worry about coming across as a typically pushy white person, so I tend to haver around in group situations in ways that sometimes don't seem polite but just really weird. Sometimes people think I'm a jerk when I'm really trying not to be a jerk. Sometimes I misunderstand situations in the moment. Sometimes my social skills fail me and I can't negotiate a complicated situation.

Basically, my feeling is that sometimes total strangers will think we're jerks when we're not. People we actually know will be able to tell the difference, and it's them whose judgment seems the most important when we're thinking "what kind of person am I?" It's good to be as unjerky as possible, but interactions with strangers are often imperfect.

If you actually know someone even slightly, they will quite readily be able to tell if you're a m'lady type or just a guy who is occasionally slightly awkward. Or even if you're a basically decent person who occasionally slips over into m'lady-dom but really doesn't mean it. Everyone knows the occasional SCA/fandom dork who wears a fedora and calls people m'lady but is actually a nice person with some slightly affected mannerisms.
posted by Frowner at 3:21 PM on September 17, 2016 [7 favorites]

I was approaching a local bank's ATM lobby recently - a branch I know quite well - when I realised a woman just in front of me was going in there too. She was perfectly able-bodied, so I expected her to simply push the glass swinging door open. Instead, she stopped dead, pressed the disabled access button beside the door and stood there waiting for the door to open itself instead.

As with most such systems, there was a momentary delay before the door reacted to the button, so by the time I'd realised she was just going to stand there, I'd already pushed the door open for myself and swept past her to get to the ATM first. I've no idea which of us was the jerk there, but I've been puzzling over what the proper etiquette in that particular situation should be ever since.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:36 PM on September 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Douglas Adams cookies story seems relevant here.

dude, no, everyone here knows this story didn't happen to you or your "friend" and we're all embarrassed for you...

I find that the most satisfying response is to share your own story pilfered from the same author. You can decide just how obnoxious to be. Will you be subtly knowing ("I was at this reading at Cafe Vogon... delightful place, terrible poetry"), fairly direct ("The next time we went fishing, we chartered the Heart of Gold, you can find it almost anywhere."), or full-out mocking ("Who went fishing with us? Zaphod, Trillian, Ford, Arthur, you know, the usual. At the cafe later we had Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters.")
posted by aureliobuendia at 6:17 PM on September 17, 2016

Okay, MY big elevator jerk peeve is the following scenario:

* I am in a little cluster of people waiting for the elevator.
* the elevator arrives and we shuffle forward.
* I almost run into a guy from behind, who has stopped dead in my path because he is insisting that a DIFFERENT woman (usually one younger and cuter) go on to the elevator before him.

I AM A WOMAN TOO, YOU JERK. I don't care if y'all wanna be chivalrous, just make it equal-opportunity.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:23 PM on September 17, 2016

I'm still worried that I might be a jerk because of things I did more than 20 years ago, but that's gotten less with appropriate medication.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:49 PM on September 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

raider: "Unless elderly or disabled, use the fukkin stairs, ya lazy jerk!"

People do things for lots of reasons. Perhaps they're tired or stressed. Perhaps they find the stairwell unpleasant. Maybe they're sore from exercising earlier. Maybe they fell down a flight of stairs last week and they're avoiding them. Maybe they're feeling depressed and miserable and can't force themselves to put the effort in. Maybe they have to go up and down that flight of stairs a dozen times a day and they want to mix it up a bit because they're bored. Or maybe they just decided that it's okay to give themselves a break and take the easy option one in a while. I'm not at all sure it's great form to be calling people "lazy jerks" just because they take shorter trips in the elevator than you personally think is socially optimal.
posted by langtonsant at 7:25 PM on September 17, 2016 [11 favorites]

My worst elevator jerk story: I'm coming back from grocery shopping and I was using a cart to bring the groceries home (one of those small carts you can buy at the store, not a full shopping cart) and I turn towards the elevator and see that it is open and someone is in there so I asked them to hold it and they literally SHRUGGED at me and let the doors close.

(Some extra context for how much of a jerk move it was: I lived in an apartment complex that had the slowest elevator I have ever used. It took, not exaggerating, 30 seconds to move one floor. If you didn't push the door close button, it would stay open for 30 seconds. Luckily there were only 4 floors but that meant if you got to the elevator at the wrong time you could very well be waiting 4 and a half minutes or more. That is a very long time to stand and wait for a door to open.)
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:36 PM on September 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

Every day I learn that another aspect of my personality that once brought me pride - taste, discernment, 'self-absorption', 'narcissism', etc is considered a bad thing. I swear an article starting with this same line/anecdote was posted a long time ago.

Jerks see the world through goggles that dim others’ humanity. The server at the restaurant is not a potentially interesting person with a distinctive personality, life story, and set of goals to which you might possibly relate. Instead, he is merely a tool by which to secure a meal or a fool on which you can vent your anger. The people ahead of you at Starbucks are faceless and of no account. Those beneath you in the social hierarchy lack your talents and deserve to get the scut work.

I suppose that, by this criteria, I am a jerk because I don't want to make small-talk with every Uber driver, cashier, and co-worker who crosses my path (and because I have a complex semi-theology based on overlaying mythic reality on to the 'real world'). Who was it that said 'treat every human as an end rather than a means?' That philospher didn't interact with as many people as we are forced to.

Are you surrounded by fools and non-entities, by people with bad taste and silly desires, by boring people undeserving of your attention, by people who can be understood quickly by applying a broad and negative brush—creeps, stuck-up snobs, bubbleheaded party kids, smug assholes, and, indeed, jerks?

If this is how the world regularly looks to you, then I have bad news. Likely, you are the jerk. This is not how the world looks to most people, and it is not how the world actually is. You have a distorted vision. You are not seeing the individuality and potential of the people around you.

Either everything in this article is completly untrue, or I need to take a deep look in the mirror. Probably the former.

And, of course, the solution is 'mindfullness', which seems to be the solution to everything these days.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 10:34 PM on September 18, 2016

Every day I learn that another aspect of my personality that once brought me pride - taste, discernment, 'self-absorption', 'narcissism', etc is considered a bad thing.

Hey, did you know that pride is one of the seven deadly sins?

I'm sure you can learn to shed it through lots of mindfulness practice though
posted by Dysk at 1:16 AM on September 19, 2016

People do things for lots of reasons.

Exactly. I used to get kinda annoyed at people who took the elevator for one floor. Then I tore my ACL and had to have surgery. It's been 9 months and I look perfectly ambulatory now. I can even ride my bike to work and I just ran a 5K yesterday! But stairs still suck. I live on the 4th floor of a walkup building and have to lug my bike & gear up and down those stairs every day. And it hurts my knee. So you had better believe I am taking the elevator (or standing and not walking up an escalator) if I have the opportunity. I try my best to be considerate (for example, I won't run to catch a full elevator and will wait for the next one; when standing on an escalator I stand as far to the right as possible so walkers can pass me if they'd like.)

You don't know the physical, emotional, or mental burdens people are carrying. I try to remind myself of that when people do things that annoy me.

But dudes who *insist* against all reason that I get off the elevator first because I'm a lady, sorry, they're still annoying.
posted by misskaz at 6:36 AM on September 19, 2016 [8 favorites]

Whenever someone tells me, "See, chivalry's not dead," I say, "I know, it just smells funny."

I hold the door for whomever is behind me. I also give my seat to people who seem like they could use it. Once on a bus, I tried to give my seat to an older lady. She demurred, and I said, "No, really, if I don't give you my seat, my mama will whip me." She said, "So I'm doing you a favor, then?" and sat down.
posted by corvikate at 10:57 AM on September 19, 2016

For 20 bucks, because I am in town, I will read your posting history and tell you whether you're a jerk or not. Frowner, don't pay. You are very clearly not a jerk.
posted by lauranesson at 11:22 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

Frowner, don't pay. You are very clearly not a jerk.

A jerk would have made Frowner pay, so lauranesson, you are very clearly not a jerk. Except you just scammed $20 of free work from me, so you must be a jerk, except if you actually are a jerk then I got it wrong, so you didn't scam me, so you're not a jerk, so you did scam me, so……

Well, the paradox is epimenidelightful, anyway.
posted by ambrosen at 12:12 PM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:41 PM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

But dudes who *insist* against all reason that I get off the elevator first because I'm a lady, sorry, they're still annoying.

For sure.

You let other people off the elevator first to make sure they're not ninja assassins or government thugs preparing to take you down!
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:58 PM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

"How are you today, miss? Can I ask you a question?"

My answer to this is always, "No, thanks!" With a BIG! SMILE!

I have a friend who is cursed with Looking Approachable and she is the master of shut-downs like this.

PERSON WITH CLIPBOARD: You look like someone who cares about [Issue Whatever]!

FRIEND: [coquettish smile] [head tilt] I'm not! *doesn't break stride*
posted by psoas at 3:49 PM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm just starting to realize that people line up fof busses - I just tend to walk straight to the front and go on. Is that jerkish?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:20 PM on September 19, 2016

I just tend to walk straight to the front and go on. Is that jerkish?

This is mostly only bad news if the Rapture comes tomorrow but yeah, it's like Ninth Circle of Hell kind of stuff.
posted by GuyZero at 4:38 PM on September 19, 2016

This is mostly only bad news if the Rapture comes tomorrow but yeah, it's like Ninth Circle of Hell kind of stuff.

I'm not sure if that counts as Treachery, or if it puts me up there with Judas and Brutus. I have rewritten The Inferno twice for various classes.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:44 PM on September 19, 2016

PERSON WITH CLIPBOARD: You look like someone who cares about [Issue Whatever]!

FRIEND: [coquettish smile] [head tilt] I'm not! *doesn't break stride*

I've taken to preempting clipboard wielders and chuggers by catching their eye on the approach and giving them a mournful shake of the head, because I can always rely on being approached otherwise. I get stopped for directions a lot too, which I always obliging provide to the best of my ability.
posted by Dysk at 4:58 PM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure if that counts as Treachery

I could have gone with Greed, Heresy, Violence or Fraud, true. It is a tough choice and I am not enough of a theologian to know which one of these best represents line-cutting.

I have rewritten The Inferno twice for various classes.

Playwriting? Rhetoric? Renaissance Italian Literature Translation? Maybe a Thermodynamics assignment gone terribly wrong? The original seemed fine to me so I'm curious why you were given this rather large task.

Did the prof at least start the assignment with the warning above the gates to hell: "Through me the way to the suffering city; Through me the everlasting pain; Through me the way that runs among the Lost."?
posted by GuyZero at 5:05 PM on September 19, 2016

They were specifically a class on Dante's Divine Comedy. Both were fun; in one I had Bob Dylan as my guide and tortured Paul McCartney and Mark David Chapman; the other was a more personal saga.

The upcoming Dan Brown Inferno movie is going to give me an aneurysm.

I could have gone with Greed, Heresy, Violence or Fraud, true. It is a tough choice and I am not enough of a theologian to know which one of these best represents line-cutting.

It's more I don't even realize that there is a line - i see a group of people waiting for a bus. My goal, and their goal, is to get on the bus. There are limited spaces on the bus. They don't usually organize themselves in orderly queues.

There's a sort of social niceness that seems to be expected in The South and in Australia and such, where you make small talk with service workers and all that. It can be politeness, but I tend to think its polite to take up as little of people's time and mental bandwidth as possible, and I hope they will do the same to me.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:35 PM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]

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